Slowing Sales for 2009 Proof Gold Buffalo
The pace of sales for the 2009 Proof Gold Buffalo has showed a constant, steep decline since sales began on October 29, 2009. The latest sales report shows 4,316 coins sold in the latest weekly sales period.The total number of coins sold to date is now 32,271. This is comprised of 19,468 coins sold during the opening three days, then 8,487 coins sold during the following week, and 4,316 coins sold in the most recent week ending November 15.
It is common for the pace of sales for newly released US Mint products to decline significantly following their initial release. The Ultra High Relief Double Eagle showed an even steeper rate of decline following its release. After selling more than 40,000 coins in the opening 3 days, less than 5,000 coins were sold in the following two weeks. By the sixth week, less than 1,000 coins were sold in a week.
The 2009 Proof Gold Buffalo has been holding up better by comparison. Sales have been supported by the lack of household ordering limits and the general popularity of the Gold Buffalo series. Factors holding down the rate of sales include anticipated higher mintage and the relatively high price of the coin, which was just raised this week to $1,410.
In the long run, some collectors are hoping for a low mintage for the 2009 Proof Gold Buffalo to support future premiums. It does seems likely that the 2009 mintage will fall below the level of the 2007 Proof Gold Buffalo which had 58,998 coins minted. It has already surpassed the low set by the one ounce 2008 Proof Gold Buffalo which was recently adjusted to 25,496 (unconfirmed).
Go to Coin Update News for a complete US Mint sales report for November 15, 2009.
Labels: Gold Buffalo
posted by Mint News Blog @ 3:09 PM
57 Comments:
The 2009 W proof Buffalo mintage has already passed the 2008 W proof Buffalo. It is no longer the key coin of the series. Also, the coin is pricey - gold prices have gotten to levels where average collectors of modest incomes can no longer afford to buy many gold coins.
The odds that this coins will double or triple in value from US mint prices seems more and more unlikely as time goes by.
Demand versus supply. The longer its availability, the more collectors will have a chance to buy the coin. Thus, demand will drop, supplies will increase, and secondary market values will not be near those of the 2008 W buffalo....
I order 5 Buffalo on 10-29-09 at 11:17 cst. Today I receive only 1 buffao, I open the box to, just to found out I got someone else order in NY, and that person got my 5 buffalos, even on the UPS tracking it show my package is 3.30 Lbs.. the Mint shows it shipped out all 5 coins..
Becareful with when you order from the mint..
There is no way I would consider investing $1,400+ on an 09 Gold buff, I would much rather put that money on an 08 Buff or Prosperity Set. At least if gold prices drop you still have a coin that has value due to the scarcity of the 2008s coins.
You must be pretty rich to sound so calm about not receiving $5,440 (@ 10/29's pricing) worth of merchandise.
How do you intend to get your additional 4 coins or your money back? I would think this would be a long nightmare!
Anonymous at 4:58, you should call the US Mint ASAP and try to straighten this out.
Would love to be the other guy! What would you do if you only ordered 1 buff and opened the box and found 5!
Yeah, the 2009 Buffalo gold proof coin will not be a part of my collection. I have to stick with the First Spouse sets I'm trying to build. They're getting horribly expensive. I already had to give up on one set of proofs and one set of uncirculateds due to having to buy a new car last July. The transmission failed and needed rebuilt on the 12-year old Ford Probe! Now a $632.19 monthly car payment on the 2010 Camry is putting the damper on my coin budget!
I know, I know, the First Spouse series is NOT very popular. I still think that will someday turn around, and the coins will join those that no one seemed to want when they were for sale at the Mint, but later people become infatuated with the very low-mintage numbers and they suddenly become quite valuable due to extreme scarcity.
I guess eventually I'll have to sell off my extra 2007 and 2008 proofs and uncirculateds that were the second sets of each I was building.
The 2008 Proof Buffalo has a mintage of 25,000 and the 2009 will have around 45,000... they will both be key dates of the series.
If the mint would also revive production of a 1/4 buffalo in very high mintage yearly there would be a lot more happy collectors and it would allow a lot more collectors get the "gold coin" experience. The cost of one oz. is getting extreme even for diehard collectors with the resources to acquire it. the 1/2 oz spouse is just not for everyone and also is getting out of reach even for the few that like it. I believe a 1/4 buff and maybe a 1/4 AGE in high mintage would be a great PR move.
What gives, I can't seem to find any uncirculated 2008 w $5 gold eagles in OGP, that aren't certified.Anyone up to sell one ?
I do have one of the 2008 w $5 gold eagles in OGP but holding on to it. What are they going for these days???
6:13 blogger, I just bought a raw $5 2008 W buff uncirc off of ebay 1 hour ago. It was one of several for sale. Some are still in the sealed shipping boxes. I bought this one because I was off of work. It was expensive, but not as much as some at this weight. There was no resistence at the end of the aution. I placed my bid a couple of hours before it ended and I got it with no problems. I was very surprised. I figured that the newest release of mintage numbers would stir some action up.
order 5 Buffalo on 10-29-09 at 11:17 cst.
I have already contacted the Usmint, they sound like I was lying to them, and they told me to ship back the box with the original UPS label [that was shipped to me] and everything else with it.. first they offer me a prepaid label to be shipped to me, but I don't want to wait, I told them I will overnight it back to them, they offer to refund my shipping after I fax them the receipt. hope it turn out OK. Or else I might have to dispute it, but since I sign for it, I don't know what my credit card company will do..
I just want others to know about this mess up with the mint..
there are others that order coins from the mint and never open the box, think twice before you put the unopened box in the safe.
Last one's sold on ebay not certified were $285 item #220503618605 also item #120491540536 for $329.00!!!
To >order 5 Buffalo on 10-29-09 at 11:17 cst. Best of luck on that , I hope it all works out for you , but don't hold your breath. Remember the Mint is , and will continue to screw us over any chance they get.
I think that a $150.00 gold coin is better suited for most collectors ,so the mint should still do collector version of fractionals, and limit the one ounce collector versions, instead of what they are doing now ..But hey , we are talking about the Mint here and Mr. Moy..
Several points:
First, the US Mint made it VERY clear that they are not concerned with collectors and that particular revenue stream. Think about it...they even canceled a highly affordable collectible...the ASE 'W' proofs and Unc. coins. They made a conscious decision and flipped the bird at collectors and don't care what collectors think. Anyone dreaming about what the Mint could do is really just deluding themselves.
Second, God bless the poor chap who didn't get his order of Buffs from the Mint. If it was Wal-Mart, you would get much better customer service. Unfortunately , we're talking about the Mint who really doesn't care about collectors anymore. I'm sure you WILL get you coins, but I pity you the headache you will have in the end. Sounds like you ordered a quantity that would allow for Early Release or First Strike. Shame that you may not be able to get those designations. Way to go Mint!
Third, admittedly it's none of my business, but why would anyone trade off their coin collection for a brand new car. Coins hold their value while cars depreciate and suck the life-force out of your wallet. I realize having a car is a necessary evil (not a tree-hugger here), but why a brand new car??? Seems like there would be a lot of those "cash for clunkers" around out there that would be a steal. It pains me to hear such stories.
UPS should have a record of how much your packaged weighed. You may be able to use that as proof that your box was too light to contain 5 buffs.
Did anyone else take a gander at the mint image library? They still show that the ASE proof coins as 1986-present. Does this peeve anyone else? Is there anyway to have them correct their laziness and have this changed to 1986-2008?
Just got my grades back from PCGS for the 4 Buffaloes I sent in. 2 were graded PF70DC and 2 were graded PF69DC.When I first received these coins I commented that the new laser frosting that the mint is now using appeared to have not as much detail as previous years coins.2 of the 4 that I received were very visible to the naked eye that the detail was weak.I expected grades on those 2 coins in the 67 range and was shocked that they came back 69's. Two of my 2008 Buffalo 4 coin sets were both graded perfect PF70DC and they are so much nicer coins than these.Don't know how PCGS can give any of these coins 70's when compared to my 2008's, but I'll gladly take them.And yes, even though I am totally against the "First Strike" logic,for the $14/coin that PCGS charges for this designation I had no choice but to have them graded that way.Not that I'm selling any of my coins unless gold gets to $2500/oz, people will pay a premium for the FS coins.
Personally, I think it's time the Mint revise their pricing policy for the precious metal coins.
Ironically the higher gold and platinum go, the less an impact the $50 increases have on the overall price of a coin purchased from the Mint.
The new pricing policy in conjunction with the Mint not producing highly popular numismatic coins sends only one signal to collectors: THE MINT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE NUMISMATIC SIDE OF THEIR OPERATIONS. PERIOD.
Note that I did not say the numismatic side of their "business" because the Mint does not operate like a business nor does it treat its customer (at least us small-time purchasers) as a business would (just ask the guy who ordered 5 buffs and received only 1). They are now about the core of their mandate, which is to produce coins for the populace and bullion as stated by the law. The rest is secondary.
I'm the guy who bought the new car. I always buy new cars, because a lot of used cars can have things wrong with them that cause more harm in the long run than the money you would save by buying them. I like starting a car off myself and taking good care of it it's entire life. I keep them for a LONG time.
I didn't "trade off" any coins for the car, but buying the car takes a serious chunk out of the money I could sink into buying more gold coins. That's all I was saying. The 2002 Camry was paid off in March 2007, and the house was paid off in December 2004. So, my wife and I had been totally debt-free for almost 2-1/2 years. That's why I was able to buy two of each First Spouse finish for each coin thus far in the entire series, as well as Platinums, Buffalos and Eagles. But now, the rising prices coupled with a new car financed for 36 months (at 0% interest at least) makes buying as many coins as before impossible.
Selling off some coins is a possibility, but it's kind of painful to sell off coins bought cheaper to buy similar coins that are much more expensive. The only saving grace for the new coins (such as First Spouses) is that the mintage could be much less than the coins I'm selling off, hence making them more valuable down the road.
Don't get your hopes up on spouse coins. Other than the liberty versions they are dogs (I'm talking about the coins not the spouses). If the mint had announced a production limit on them to maybe 5 large or less that might increase interest and value down the road but as of now they have a very limited following like platinums. However, if YOU like them that is what really matters most. They are a precious metal so will always have that value.
Yeah, that's the way I see it too. Having more gold is not a bad thing. I still can't help but think that the First Spouse coins will wake up someday as the series progresses and more people will start to want the low-mintage issues that were largely ignored during their release period.
I guess the first test of that theory will come late in 2010 when the Mary Lincoln coins go on sale. She just might sell out. It would only take 40,000 of the millions of collectors who collect Lincoln coins to want a coin depicting his wife to make that happen. It could be the first chance for a proof finish to trounce an uncirculated finish as well, if the typical proof popularity prevails.
Your last point was correct in that it's always important to collect what we enjoy, not just what we think might be more valuable down the road.
Speaking of Lincoln, here is what I don't get. The Chronicles have seemed to have moved up recently on Ebay and now is the time for people to buy but ofcourse people will wait till the frenzy starts and complain about all the people that are selling them at high prices. I personally bought 6 of them, 3 for each of my kids and 3 for my collection. Based on the lack of products that the mint is producing, my theory is that its only going to get worse and people will have no choice but to get the 08 and 09 coins due to the low mintages. Look at what is happenind to all the 08 coins right now, the same thing will happen in 2010 when people see that their is nothing really worth buying and will jump on the premium 09 coins. The only coin that I have heard rumors about is the palladium coin that might come out next year which I think will be a real winner but that is it!
At current prices, the 1oz Platinum proof eagle will be priced at $1792. Thoughts?
Ridiculous!!!!
The platinum lobby in congress must have got the platinums started. Like a commenter stated on another post there are probably only a few hundred people that have complete sets of platinum. The mint might as well make a coin out of banana flakes as I am sure there would be at least that many who would want a complete set. No offense meant to the platinum collectors but that coin is a complete misallocation of the machinery and resourses used to make it.
Maybe the mint should just make all their coins out of Copper...
Then we would see the true value of the coins for their design quality without all the speculation involved because of the value of the precious metal...
And, yes they are doing this to some degree with the Presidents wives series.
"copper baron"
BEWARE of another situation of distress: I ordered two Buffalo proofs at the initial offering time; package arrived today via UPS, cello-taped widthwise and lengthwise, with a tear in the corner. I opened the box with great expectations only to find one coin box without a sleeve and without my coin; the other box had a sleeve but again, no coin!!!! Also, the packing slip was taken. Ripped off in transit and this time, I guess not the mint's fault. I contacted the Mint and am now faxing them a Cert. of Non-receipt. I also called UPS and reported the incident; for them, I have to hold all the packaging. The Mint rep. says it will probably take 4-6 weeks before I will receive my replacement coins, which means I lose the shot at having these graded as first strikes or early releases. Sometimes, it seems that mint dealings can be star-crossed. BE CAREFUL to examine your package before you sign for it, if you're present, it will probably save you a lot of hassling. Wish me well!!
I live in Brooklyn NY. About 2 months ago I ordered 12 FS gold coins. Mint shipped them in 6 packages. One package a day. UPS lost one package with 2 FS gold coins. I think UPS delivery man took my coins. Every day after this he was asking me if I got replacement.Ups did investigation and after they didnt find package Mint started investigation.After about 2 months I received replacement and for gold coins my next orders will go to my mother address.With Fedex I didnt have a problem before.
I've never had a problem having my coins shipped to my P.O. Box. The Mint website points out that expedited shipping is not available for P.O. boxes, but it doesn't matter. They use USPS Priority Mail to ship to a P.O. Box, and it arrives almost as quickly as UPS or Fedex. For me, it's almost the same, since I live in Illinois and the fulfillment center is in Indiana.
I started using my P.O. box for security, since UPS used to leave my packages sitting on the porch all day since I was at work and unavailable to sign.
I will be surprised if the mint continues to make buffalos next year. As others note they just don't care about collectors. Look at all the coins other mints produce. What has happened?!
order 5 Buffalo on 10-29-09 at 11:17 cst.
Update, I been calling the mint everyday about my status. all they tell me is they are working on it. Today I ask the lady who answer the phone, does this problem happen before to others, she told me that is does happen once in a while. and they always fix correct it, and she say that they will be sending a bill to the person who receive my coins, if he don't return them, but I don't think that will be happening.
The winning bid for a 2008 w 1/4 gold eagle on the bay $925!!
To anon 8:31am,
I could be mistaken but I thought there was a law in the US that said in effect, if you receive something by mail that you did not order you have no responsibility to pay for it or return it. Of course that probably only applies to USPS and since the mint is part of the govt all bets are off.
Wow!!!
I just received 5 proofs and I only ordered one. JACKPOT!
naaw, not really.
I had problems with TWO UHRs coming with flaws... both were replaced quickly (Plainfield) but the CC moneys got all hosed up (Wash.)... finally got everything credited correctly after about TWO months!
My customer account with the U.S. Mint got messed up a few months ago, and it took quite a while to get it straightened out.
The problem started with an order last May. The Mint charged my credit card for the order, for some unknown reason credited the charge back to the card on the same day, then re-charged the order a few days later. When my credit card statement came in, I saw the weird things that had happened but I didn't bother to say anything since everything worked out in the end (two charges and one credit equalled the correct amount for one order so the Mint and I were square.) But, a couple of months later they sent me a bill for that order again because their records showed that I had received a credit to my credit card after the order had shipped. The letter gave me a choice of paying the bill or returning the merchandise using a pre-paid return shipping label they had provided.
It took quite a few phone calls to get that one straightened out! Until it was all fixed, every new order I placed with the Mint went into a status of "On Hold" and never moved from that until I called the Mint Accounting office. They had placed my entire account under "administrative hold" or something while they were trying to work out with my credit card company that they had indeed been paid for my order in question.
If you ever see something similar to what I've just described happen with your credit card regarding a U.S. Mint order, call the Mint accounting office in Washington DC right away and tell them. It might spare you some grief. I won't publish the phone number here since it is not common knowledge, but if you press them enough the person you talk to at the order center in Indiana will give the number to you.
They won't give you number to Washington HQ. They may forward your call if they can't help you or may put note in to your account and somebody from DC HQ my call you. 202 354 7890 is the number.You can try to call but they wont pick up the phone.
I have a question about professionally slabbed coins (like from PGCS, NGC, etc.). Specifically, this question applies to First Spouse gold coins and UHR gold coins....
I prefer that my coins are NOT slabbed. I prefer to have the coins in their original US Mint cases.
I am wondering if there is a way to have slabbed coins placed back in their original US mint case. Of course, I would have to find one of these cases - maybe PGCS or NGC would sell one to me?
Or.... could PGCS or NGC "unslab" a coin and place it back in an original US Mint case for me?
What do you think?
3:09 blogger, I dunno, but I agree. I don't care for slabbed items unless they are very old and wouldn't normally have a case. I'm trying to get one of each of the 2008 w buffs and it is hard to find unslabbed examples. I think the mint packaging for those are very nice.
I sent some fractional buffs to PCGS earlier in the year. They returned the original plastic clamshells with the graded coins. I never sent in the display boxes. While shopping for these, check with the seller, they may still have the original stuff. I am not sure how difficult it would be to crack open the PCGS slab without damaging the coin. Good luck.
By the way, I sold these during the summer, and included all of the original stuff in my auctions.
Has the shipping date for 2009 proof gold buffalo's now been pushed back to November 27?!?!?! It says so on the mint website.
I wonder if that is for people like me who ordered the first 10 minutes and still haven't received the coins, or just new orders.
I hope mine will ship tomorrow, because November 20 was the backordered shipping date until they put November 27 up on the page.
Have you tired calling the US Mint? Sometimes I find that helps.
Anonymous said...
Has the shipping date for 2009 proof gold buffalo's now been pushed back to November 27?!?!?! It says so on the mint website.
I wonder if that is for people like me who ordered the first 10 minutes and still haven't received the coins, or just new orders.
I hope mine will ship tomorrow, because November 20 was the backordered shipping date until they put November 27 up on the page.
November 19, 2009 10:17 PM
I love these posts that state gold will go up or gold will go down, but have no facts to back it up. Yeah...gold is at a historic high...so what! I think everyone agrees that gold goes up and down. Just because you want it to go down and find an article somewhere that says it's going to go down doesn't mean it's going to happen today, tomorrow, or this year.
Please educate us with facts...not emotions and articles based on emotions.
For those of you wanting to buy unslabbed coins, I totally understand your point. I choose to buy slabbed coins (with mint packaging) for two reasons:
1) There is a much better chance of the coin not being counterfeit, which is a problem these days.
2) If you are buying the coin on-line, you risk getting one that is not as described. For example I purchased a seemingly nice looking gold coin with all the packaging about a year ago. When it arrived I noticed the coin had a scratch on the front of it, but the seller had neglected to mention it. A graded coin is less likely to be damaged because a third party has at least looked at it and gave an indication as to its condition.
In short, slabbed coins have 'less' issues if you are buying the coin sight unseen. If you order a slabbed coin that comes with its mint packaging, you can break open the slab (there are lots of websites that tell you how) and place it back in its original form. If the packaging comes without the capsules, there are plenty Mint capsules available to order on eBay.
Their is now no shipping date being listed on the Mints web- site for the Buffalo.
My invoice said would ship 11/19/09 Today the 20th it says In stock and reserved.I placed my order on 11/06/09.
I think the Mint reset all the orders. I have exactly the same thing (same order date like yours). My other order that I placed on Nov 11 was first set to ship on Nov.20 then moved to Nov.27 then reset again to "reserved". They just don't know what they are doing I guess.
Has anyone considered the mint might be getting looted by political cronies. This would cause a delay until all the cronies are taken care of. Remember the congressional scam a number of years ago when congress would write themselves a check to the post office for $5000 to get a book of stamps and the rest in change and not have money to cover it in their account.
my buff proof has been "in stock and reserved" since I ordered it November 3rd. it seems that others who ordered coins the first week are also still waiting, while some peopl have received theirs.
Is it really "in stock" or are they making them as they get ordered?
And are they short on 24 karat blanks already because of high bullion buff sales?
Are they having to reexamine thme for some error?
What is the deal?
It makes me think that there is some issue here that will cause a low mintage after all.
I called the Mint this week to ask them what the deal is with my Gold Buffalo order. I ordered on the first day of issue. She told me it will be 3-4 weeks.
I wonder why it should take 3 - 4 weeks, if it really in stock. I ordered a van buren's liberty on 11/05 and it shipped within days. I understand that one coin is in high demand and just started sales while the other is on its last days, but "in stock" = "in stock". obviously there is something funny going on here.
I checked my credit card account and it shows a pending charge for my buffalo from the mint,Usually i received my coins and then it shows up on my account that day or the next.
Last week, they said it would be 3-4 weeks. I just checked the Mint's website, and my coin has shipped today. I can't wait! Curious that there is no pending charge on my credit card yet. I don't imagine they'll forget that. :D
The herd of Buffalos was spotted crossing the Mississippi River yesterday...
The mint sent out smoke signals.
My buffalo coin has finally been shipped.
Circle the wagons.
Buffalo Bill
I ordered my proof buff Nov 2nd, it just shipped on Monday. I also ordered another one last nite just before the price hike. I think gold will correct in the near term, but go higher eventually.
I ordered on Nov. 06 and another Nov. 11. To my surprise, both of them shipped today (can't trust the Mint until I see the coins), but my account was never charged. Could it be that there is so many complaints, they just clear the house without verifying payment.. I am speculating they are going to flood the market with Buffaloes and then stop the production.
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