Mint News Blog

News, Information, and Commentary on US Mint Products

Friday, November 13, 2009

Updated 2008 Gold, Platinum, Silver Eagle and Gold Buffalo Mintages


The United States Mint recently released updated mintages for most collectible 2008 precious metals coins. This includes uncirculated and proof versions of the 2008 Gold Eagle, Platinum Eagle, Silver Eagle, and Gold Buffalo coins. In a few cases, the updated numbers have caused a dramtic change in mintage.

The table below presents the final updated sales figures by product. A total column has been added to compute the total mintage for coins included in multiple products options. For the most part, this total is computed by adding the individual sales with the 4 Coin Set sales. The one exception is for the 1/2 oz. Uncirculated Gold Eagle and Gold Buffalo totals, which also include Double Prosperity Set sales figures.


Per Option Total
2008 Silver Eagles

Proof 700,979
Uncirculated 436,702



2008 Gold Eagles

1 oz. Proof 17,720 30,237
1/2 oz. Proof 10,085 22,602
1/4 oz. Proof 6,360 18,877
1/10 oz. Proof 15,599 28,116
4 Coin Proof Set 12,517



1 oz. Uncirculated 9,057 11,908
1/2 oz. Uncirculated 5,209 15,682
1/4 oz. Uncirculated 6,032 8,883
1/10 oz. Uncirculated 9,806 12,657
4 Coin Uncircualted Set 2,851
Double Prosperity Set 7,622



2008 Platinum Eagles

1 oz. Proof 2,508 4,769
1/2 oz. Proof 1,759 4,020
1/4 oz. Proof 1,892 4,153
1/10 oz. Proof 2,877 5,138
4 Coin Proof Set 2,261



1 oz. Uncirculated 1,593 2,876
1/2 oz. Uncirculated 970 2,253
1/4 oz. Uncirculated 1,198 2,481
1/10 oz. Uncirculated 2,423 3,706
4 Coin Uncirculated Set 1,283



2008 Gold Buffalo

1 oz. Uncircualted 3,025 9,074
1/2 oz. Uncirculated 3,237 16,908
1/4 oz. Uncirculated 3,900 9,949
1/10 oz. Uncirculated 11,380 17,429
4 Coin Uncirculated 6,049
Double Prosperity Set 7,622

Mintages for US Mint products tend to see some minor adjustments from the final reported sales figures, but some of the changes for 2008 have been extreme. One of the most extreme changes was for the 2008 Proof $10 Gold Eagle individual coin which saw sales adjusted from 15,229 to 6,360. This coin now becomes the lowest mintage $10 Proof Gold Eagle with a mintage of 18,877 coins.

The stand out number for Gold Eagles still remains the 2008-W Uncircualted $10 Gold Eagle with a new final mintage of 8,883 coins. This remains as the lowest mintage ever for a Gold Eagle.

A dramatic change in the number for 2008-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagle Four Coin Set sales caused total mintages to decline significantly for the individual coins contained in the set. Except for the 1/10 oz, the new mintages for each coin now fall below the levels of the 2006-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagles. The 2008-W Uncircualted $50 Platinum Eagle also becomes the lowest mintage Platinum Eagle ever at just 2,253 coins.

Other changes were less significant, but mostly served to lower the mintages which had been computed based on the last reported sales figures. Numismaster has a side by side comparison with the old numbers here.

Labels:

84 Comments:

At November 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is the 08 Proof Buffalo data missing or was there no change for these?

 
At November 13, 2009 at 11:09 AM , Blogger Michael said...

Not sure at the moment. I will try to get confirmation.

 
At November 13, 2009 at 11:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

We'll probably find out they made 100,000 2008 Proof Gold Buffalo's and then everyone will feel dumb for paying $3,000 for one.

 
At November 13, 2009 at 11:51 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was looking at past stats and something interesting here with proofs too. It seems that the low mintage points were(pls correct if necessary):

2005 AGE 1/10 Pf = 34.8K [28.1K]
2005 AGE 1/4 Pf = 25.2K [18.9K]
1997 AGE 1/2 Pf = 41.3K [22.6K]
2001 AGE 1 Pf = 33.6K [30.2K]
[xx.xK] = 2008 Proof mintages

The 1/2 the proof mintages are very low for 2008!

 
At November 13, 2009 at 12:04 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The numbers for the 1/2 ounce coins didnt really change much. Do you think this will have any effect on the Double Prosperity set??

 
At November 13, 2009 at 12:52 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Michael,

This is another example of the excellence of your website! Very relevant for those of us that don't have access, can't afford access, or just don't have time to keep our fingers on the pulse of numismatic current events. I try to check this site daily.

Well done!

 
At November 13, 2009 at 12:53 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bought a couple 1/4 ounce Unc AGEs based on the information in this website, and I'm glad I did. Something rare to pass down to the kids.

Thanks Michael!

 
At November 13, 2009 at 1:01 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even if 100,000 Proof Buffalo 2008 coins WERE struck, the ones that were not sold would have been melted down and used for other coins.

I've noticed a recent spike in the value of the 2008 Proof Buffalo 4-coin set, as it now routinely fetches $5,300+. On the other hand, the 2008 Uncirculated Buffalo 4-coin set had a couple of attempted sales at $4,500 where no one bid. With a mintage of barely over 9,000 coins, the 2008 1 oz Buffalo Uncirculated coin with the "W" Mint mark will likely ALWAYS be the king of the entire series of 1 oz coins, as that mintage should prove pretty tough to beat. It doesn't seem to make sense that those aren't selling as well. I guess it could be one of those cases where both finishes are such low-mintage that the proof popularity still prevails. Also, the fact that there is a follow-up 2009 Proof Buffalo coin to pursue while the 2008 "W" Uncirculated coin is a one-of-a-kind type could serve to hurt it's popularity as well.

I still say that someday, once the uncirculated versions of the coins have pretty much vanished due to being put away in collections belonging to those who don't intend to sell them, the uncirculated 2008 coins will explode in value. $4,500 now is still a bargain that no one seems to be taking.

 
At November 13, 2009 at 1:40 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was able to get a 2008 AGE W 1/4 that has a stuck through error. I have two questons; first should I send it to PCGS, NGC or keep it raw? And Do you all think that it would carry an additional premium?
And thanks a lot Michael for all the info!

K from CA

 
At November 13, 2009 at 2:42 PM , Anonymous VABEACHBUM said...

Michael - Has anyone published revised estimates for the population of the 2008 SAE w/ the 2007 Reverse? I noticed that they had not been included as a subset of the 2008 UNC listing.

These coins seem to be holding their own on the secondary market, and have garnered a long-standing link on your auction summaries. I'm curious as to where this error issue ranks within the entire SAE family.

BTW - Within your most recent Re-Pricing topic, I had asked a question about updates to the Mint Pricing Grid. It may have been lost within the other off-topic stuff.

Thanks again for the time and effort you put into this board. Your information always proves to be timely and useful.

 
At November 13, 2009 at 2:57 PM , Blogger stgecko said...

First off thanks so much for the updated figures. I had a good year last year in that I picked up a 1oz. Buffalo Unc and two 1oz. APE Unc. The APE's both have strike thru errors now not knowing much about them should I leave them raw or have them graded ala NGC or PCGS? Plus do you think they would carry an extra premium?

 
At November 13, 2009 at 3:08 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding the earlier post on the 2008 W Unc Buff sets, I couldn't agree with you more. I do think the fact that the Unc Buffs were a one-year anomaly coupled with their low mintage will result in serious appreciation some day.

I would also be interested in seeing the mintage changes for the 2008 W Proof Buffs if it's available out there. For that matter, the 2008 SAE w/2007 Reverse number would also be interesting. If anyone could post this information, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 
At November 13, 2009 at 5:19 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

WRT to the strike through error if it is major it might have a premium. For example I have a satin finish Pres $ which has a thin long unicorn like projection caused by strike though on the Presidents forehead. It is interesting enough for me to keep it. (I was offered $75 for it by a dealer.) Small insignificant strike throughs seem to reduce the grade by a point. So it is a toss up.

 
At November 13, 2009 at 7:29 PM , Anonymous Lureuin said...

Believe it or not, 1 day before this announcement I bought the 2008 W Platinum 1/2 oz Uncirc for $1,050. Boy did I just make money.

 
At November 13, 2009 at 8:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any updated sales figures on the 09w proof buff?

 
At November 13, 2009 at 10:00 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a question regarding the 2008 Double Prosperity set. My set is raw in perfect condition. There are no visible flaws on the coins Im sure they would grade at 69 or 70. Should I leave this set in raw condition or have them graded? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

 
At November 13, 2009 at 10:37 PM , Blogger John said...

I am really surprised by the new mintages, especially the uncirculated plats. From other threads that I have been following I remember rumors many months ago that the mint was about 900 off on the 4 coin set totals due to back orders that were never filled. There was much banter over which plats would be the king the 06's or 08's according to the updated totals it looks like the 08's are indeed the kings of the series.I was lucky enough to buy four of the one oz coins from the mint and decided to add to my stock and just purchased one more off ebay since the mintage is now only 2876 and for some strange reason the price of the one ounce coins has not spiked on ebay yet. I think that any U.S. coin with a mintage sub 3000 is a winner. My feeling is that the half ounce plat is going to skyrocket overnight, props to the 7:29 blogger on his stellar timing. As for the proof buff's here are the mintages $50 25496 an increase of 5905 $25 16620 an increase of 4051 $10 15767 an increase of 1864 $5 25516 an increase of 6222

 
At November 13, 2009 at 11:18 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, there are 25% more 2008 1oz Proof Buffalo's than previously reported. That means the 2009 Proof Buffalo will probably have less than twice that mintage.

 
At November 14, 2009 at 12:50 AM , Anonymous Chuck said...

The 2008 $50 proof buffalo coin will still be the key of the series. If you check out prices for the other years, you'll see that it's only the 2008 $50 proof that has a considerably higher value than the others.

Those who plan to make big profits from the 2009 $50 proof buffalo are in for a big disappointment.

If you're a type collector, then it would be best to go with the 2006 $50 proof buffalo.

 
At November 14, 2009 at 6:22 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

So the 2008 Proof Buffalos went up quite a bit, while the Uncirculateds went down. Maybe THAT news will help turn around the seemingly backwards values and allow the Uncirculateds to take their rightful place on the throne!

 
At November 14, 2009 at 7:45 AM , Blogger Bowtie said...

@ Anonymous November 13, 2009 1:01 PM

Why would the fact that the 2008 w burnished buffalo is one of a kind hurt its popularity? I expect the one of a kind aspect to add tremendous value.

 
At November 14, 2009 at 7:53 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the moral of the story is if you see something you want then get it. I missed getting the '08 Buffalo proof from the Mint and now it is unlikely I will own that coin. But I am not giving up lottery tickets are available for reasonable prices.

 
At November 14, 2009 at 8:37 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just be careful on those lottery tickets. Before too long, you might spend as much on those as you would on the 2008 Buffalo Proof 4-Coin set!

 
At November 14, 2009 at 8:42 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the post on Nov 14, 7:53AM. I just started collecting coin and knew about the Mint in June that was when I purchased my first coin, UHR. I missed getting the 08 Buffalo proof but I will be willing to pay for a reasonable price when it is available. If I can’t find one, I will get two 09 Platinum proof $100 instead of one.

 
At November 14, 2009 at 8:50 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, the 2009 Platinum Proof coin is poised to be a winner. We'll have to keep an eye on that one to see how it plays out. I might pick one up myself.

 
At November 14, 2009 at 8:56 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Bowtie at 7:45 am,

What I meant was that since the Uncirculated "W" coins did not exist before or after 2008 could make some potential buyers choose to pass on them, simply because they are not part of a series of finishes, unlike the proofs. Anyone who owns a 2006, 2007 and 2009 Buffalo Proof will feel like they have to have the 2008 for series continuity, while the 2008 Uncirculateds stand alone.

Don't get me wrong, I agree 100% that the one-year-only 2008 "W" Uncirculated coins should explode in value, but things don't always play out as we think logic dictates they should. I was just stating hypotheses as to why the Uncirculateds might be lagging behind the proofs.

Just this morning though, I saw that someone is offering a 4-coin set of Uncirculateds on eBay that has been bid up to $4,900 with over a day to go, so the revised mintage figures of the coins might already be serving to turn the situation around.

Hold on tight! It could be a fast ride up to the moon!

 
At November 14, 2009 at 11:22 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lets see...2 Powerball tickets a week is $2...times roughly 50 weeks a year is $100...divided into $5500 for the 4 coin proof buff set...heck, 2064 until I have enough for the set. I think that I will stick with the lottery. Although, it would make a nice gift for my 95th bithday...

 
At November 14, 2009 at 11:26 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Slightly off topic but snowy day in this neck of the woods. Time to put on some hot chocolate and bring out the coins to "check" them out.

 
At November 14, 2009 at 11:39 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Low mintage of 2008 W silver eagle uncirculated coins, one of the lowest ever compared to other years might effect future value or collectors don't get to excited about this w silver eagles coins will have to see.

 
At November 14, 2009 at 11:40 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To commenter 11:22: Don't forget to figure in an inflation factor. One oz. of yellow was about $35 fifty years ago.

 
At November 14, 2009 at 1:34 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I remember hearing a rumor that Warren Buffet was a major BUYER of silver back a few years...some say his collection fills several trains.

Now I hear he is buying a train company...

Maybe he is getting ready to move some of that silver.

Mr. Buffet, maybe it would be easier to sell silver and buy gold instead...it might make your book keeping a little easier.

willy

 
At November 14, 2009 at 6:53 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I need some advice as I am a little torn on how to end this year for coin purchasing. I have enough $$$ allocated for one more large purchase and would be curious what others would do and why. The canditites are:
2006 bullion buff
2007 bullion buff
2007 proof buff
2008 W bullion buff 1oz
2008 proof buff 1oz
2008 W 4 coin bullion buff set (that'll probably have to wait awhile, but it still makes me drool)
2009 proof platinum
My goal is to get all of the 1oz buffs, but that will probably take till the end of next year. I'm a little confused about the platinum coins. They don't seem to get the premiums I would have thought for their low low mintage numbers, however, I do want a 1oz platnium coin eventually. I bought 2 2006 tenth oz proof platinum eagles (mintage 15000-20000ish) for a hair over bullion platinum prices earlier this year. They both are steller coins. I'm a little worried about the availabilty of the W bullion buffs over time. Something else that bothers me is that just because a coin is worth zillions doesn't mean it will be easy to find a buyer willing to pay zillions for it should it need to be sold. People seem to be willing to pay for buffs at a premium and not so much for the platinum coins.

Thanks,
A 1st year collector

 
At November 14, 2009 at 7:42 PM , Blogger John said...

To the 6:53 blogger. The platinum coins are indeed rarer coins but have a very small collector base. There are very few people who make complete sets of platinum coins. I can't imagine there being more then a couple hundred or so who have complete sets. Platinum coins with mintages of 6000 to 9000 are not in high demand. The funny thing about the platinum coins though is that they carry the largest premium for bullion. Most 1 oz platinum eagles command a few hundred over spot no matter the year or condition. This can not be said for gold eagles or gold buffalo's I happen to like the platinum coins for their rarity and the designs. So to answer your question I would say the 2008 buffalo's are the winners. They seem to have a cult following as people seem to love these coins and everybody is kicking themself's with the "woulda" "coulda" "shoulda"mentality".

 
At November 14, 2009 at 9:03 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dittos on the 7:42 commenter. Its market forces at work. Supply and demand. Low supply and low demand equal low or stable price (comparatively speaking). Lets say the mint produced only 100 coins of a kind which would be exceptionally rare but only 20 people want them. Voila' no markup on ebay. Likewise if you have 50,000 coins but one million people want that coin then price through the roof on a high mintage coin. Platinums are a nice coin but not much demand at present. In pure coin collecting you buy what you like but most of us have a mix of what we like and what we think will increase in value. For the most increase in value stay with gold. If you really like the platinum coins get some. They most likely will increase but not like gold buffaloes. Also don't forget gov't intervention and economics. What gov'ts and economies do affects price of the metal. Gold can and has dropped in price but personnally believe that is unlikely. Have the 08 Buffaloes maxed out in price? Hard to say. Remember that coins are a combination of not only a precious metal but artwork. Thats why an 09 Buffalo costs more than just a one oz. chunk. The precious metal is just one part of the equation in coin collecting. In the end it is best to buy what you really like if you are a collector.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 12:07 AM , Anonymous Chuck said...

Yes, the above poster is 100% correct. There is someone here who knows about Economics 101

That's the reason why, in my opinion, the value of the 2009 $50 proof buffalo coin will be based on its bullion value, not on its rarity. The 2008 version, on the other hand, will be in high demand because of its relative scarcity. Check out eBay. You'll see that the 2008 coin has a significantly higher value than the other years.

If you're into gold for the bullion or if you're a type collector, go for a year other than 2008. Your pocketbook will be a little thicker if you do so.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 12:17 AM , Blogger Gordon said...

Buffalo proof sales taper off
Posted by Dave

The latest weekly sales figures for the 2009 proof one-ounce Buffalo gold coin show that the rate of purchase by collectors has dropped substantially.

Some 8,487 were sold in the first full week of sales following the three-day onslaught that saw collectors scramble to acquire 19,468 pieces as sales began.

The total amount sold so far is 27,955.

By the end of the year will we see 40,000 or 45,000 of these coins sold?

It is probably too early to presume to know what the final sales numbers will be, but it probably isn’t too early to think that whatever the final number is, it will be significantly below the final number for the 2009 Ultra High Relief Saint-Gaudens $20, which is currently at 103,764.

If the Buffalo numbers run roughly half of the UHR numbers, will the coin be valued at a higher price than the UHR coin in future years?

Probably not.

Mintages are not the only factor in determining value.

Collectors forever onward will consider the UHR a desirable type coin and demand as a consequence will likely be forever higher than that for the 2009 proof Buffalo.

After all, if you want the type, you don’t have to buy the 2009 Buffalo, you can buy the proof 2006, 2007 or 2008, but you do have to buy the 2009 UHR.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 4:13 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the input. Gordon, I agree about the UHR which is why I bought 2. It seems like the W 2008 buffs have great potential for becoming very hard to find in the near future. That's what I will probably aim for now. I didn't realize so few people collected the platinum coins. I still will want a 1 oz platinum coin as a type collector, but will beable to get one in the future easily. However, I want the series of the buffs and need to get the more challenging ones now before it gets way harder to do so. Others still comment please, especially if you have a 1oz 2008 W bullion buff very cheaply for sale :). I'm not purchasing untill next month.

Thanks again,
A 1st year coin collector

 
At November 15, 2009 at 6:34 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another note about Platinum. Historically, U.S. coins were pressed in copper, silver and gold. Anything that the Mint produces in these three metals falls into the category of classic coins. I, myself, don't consider the platinum coins "real" coinage, but more like a fancy bullion coin.

Also, the platinum designs have been pretty much duds. Not like the Eagle and Buffalo, which have tremendous eye appeal.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 7:05 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To complicate the discussion, one also has to consider whether to get an 08 W Buff proof or 08 W Buff Unc. The proofs are currently demanding higher premiums now, but the uncircs are more scarce. Generally, proofs are in higher demand as a collectible; however, I kind of like the uncircs because they were only produced in one year (2008) with the 'W' and they still have the eye appeal. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong purchasing a 2008 'W' Buffalo.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

A big if...

If the price of gold tracks lower next year the prices on resale gold coins will likely follow.

Keep your powder dry if you think gold is over extended.

Goldbug

 
At November 15, 2009 at 9:00 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks like the mint raised the price of gold coin today...

goldilocks

 
At November 15, 2009 at 9:06 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gold had hit $750 and silver was at $9 and these coins were still getting a nice premium late and early this year.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 9:07 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The US Mint raised gold prices on Thursday of last week.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 9:10 AM , Anonymous John said...

Gold is expected to go up in price, according to market experts, in the near future.

If you're a long term investor or a coin collector (versus a flipper), then gold prices will likely fall from its historic highs. I believe the US economy will improve. America has always been able to overcome hard times. And I believe America will rise again.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 9:15 AM , Anonymous Walter said...

The prices of gold coins on the secondary market (like eBay) is primarily based on its bullion value (versus scarcity). So if the price of gold goes up, expect secondary values to go up in concert with gold values. On the other hand, if gold values go down, expect secondary market prices to follow suit as well up to a point.

You can see that demand for gold coins on the secondary market does not necessarily match with the prices being asked for by the US Mint. In fact, you'll find that you can get some gold coins on eBay at a lower price than what the US Mint is selling them for.

You can but Braille proof dollars at a much lower price on eBay. Guess where I'm going to buy mine?



================
A big if...

If the price of gold tracks lower next year the prices on resale gold coins will likely follow.

Keep your powder dry if you think gold is over extended.

Goldbug
===============

 
At November 15, 2009 at 10:03 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The last time gold hit its historic high (late 70s/early 80s) was when inflation was nearly 20% (ala Jimmy Carter). Also, individual and national debt was also much, much lower. Contrast that with today where we've got at least 3 more years of insane spending, individual and national debt are soaring with no end in sight, and inflation is about to take off due to uncontrolled printing of paper money.

The market is now in the midst of a dead-cat bounce and I personally don't believe we're even close to the bottom yet. Buy gold or don't buy gold...it's up to you, but things haven't even begun to get ugly yet.

If anyone (including the poster at 9:10am) believes that America is going to rise again in the near term (3-5 years), I would like to know what is going to drive it? And I do ask this seriously...not sarcastically.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 10:19 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anyone else noticed that there seems to be an extreme lack of 2008 W Gold Proof $50 Buffaloes on eBay? There are always a few $50 Uncircs out there, but the proof variety seems to be becoming more and more scarce.

I would also like to second the earlier poster who stated even with gold prices in the $850-950 range, the 2008 W Buffs were still bringing a premium. There is no doubt that these are true collectibles.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 10:45 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The world is full of cynics and those who lack faith in America.

===========

Anonymous said...

The market is now in the midst of a dead-cat bounce and I personally don't believe we're even close to the bottom yet. Buy gold or don't buy gold...it's up to you, but things haven't even begun to get ugly yet.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 10:57 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I second the above comment.

What would Reagan say?

 
At November 15, 2009 at 11:05 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The market prices on the 2008-W gold buffalos are now propped up by their numismatic premium rather than their intrinsic precious metal content. Admittedly, these coins are now in the spotlight because of the recently announced mintages and the general bullish sentiment on gold. When these coins fade from the spotlight, they will likely drop a bit in value, but probably not by much.

The same can be said for the 2004-W plat proofs, the 2006-W plat uncs and all of the 2008-W plats.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cynics??? Love the quote; however, where is the reality check??? Nice fuzzy feelings are not going to stop the repercussions from out-of-control spending. Everyone has to pay the piper someday and the USA is not exempt.

Reagan would say "reduce government (e.g., stop the spending spree), cut taxes, and let the private sector drive us to prosperity. Unfortunately, we don't have Reagan in office...just a bunch of socialists that have no checks on them socializing everything they can get away with. This ain't the 80s.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 11:52 AM , Anonymous Dave said...

Are you a cynic if you’re prudent enough to open your eyes and see what’s happening around you? There are so many factors continuing to put downward pressure on the economy. What are the factors providing upward pressure?

I certainly hope America recovers, but we’ve got a long way to go and the current path we’re on just creates more masks, which only creates more severe long term problems.

Even IF America recovers, countries like India and China are buying tons of gold. They’re not speculating, they’re long term investors. So all that precious metal is in essence being taken out of the market. Mining output has continued to decrease since the turn of the century.

The only things keeping gold from going into orbit right now are the institutional short positions and the ETFs – both of which create “artificial” gold due to their unbacked positions.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 1:02 PM , Anonymous Goldilocks said...

My thoughts...

Everyone is free to spend their money in whatever way they want. If that means putting their money in gold, hoping that it will keep going up and up while the American economy crashes, that certainly is their perogative.

However, those who hold those views should not be providing bad information to those who are risk-averse. I remember speculators who told the uninformed to buy stocks during the mid-1980s. Guess what happened in 1987? CRASH! I remember speculators who told the uninfomed to buy real estate because property prices would NEVER fall. Buy homes for your children, parents... prices will never go down. Then 2005/6 came.... CRASH!

Speculators, CEOs, etc are part of the reason why we're in the mess we're in.

So tread carefully. If you are risk-averse or new to gold investing, tread very, very, carefully.....

 
At November 15, 2009 at 5:00 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think that both Dave and Goldilocks are correct and their comments are not mutually exclusive of each other.

We are definitely in no-man's land where our economy is concerned. Unlike in the 80s, USA personal, institutional, and governmental debt is enormous (one of the reasons the housing market took it in the shorts a short while ago). Debt is bad...let me say it again...debt is bad. As the old proverb states: A debtor becomes the slave of the lender. You can't spend your way to prosperity. That's one of the reasons these stimulus plans are SO STUPID!

(Side note: It should be readily apparent that these stimulus plans don't work as we went from 8% to greater than 10% unemployment. My personal opinion is that they were just a way for the politicians in power to pay off their big contributors.)

All that said, everything has its risks and gold is no exception. Yes it can go up and it can go down. However, some countries mentioned in previous posts are choosing to "horde" gold so less is available on the market. If less is available, then the prices will escalate.

It's all about the balance between supply and demand. Higher demand results in higher prices and vice versa. Right now, countries are "demanding" gold in lieu of worthless script (caused by the aforementioned spending and debt). If China, Russia or India ever choose to dump their gold, then it's lookout below.

 
At November 15, 2009 at 5:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Michael - Can you please do a post on shipping issues with the gold buffalo proof? I ordered mine online in the first 10 minutes they went on sale on October 29. They were supposed to ship by the 12th, now the 20th, haven't shipped as of today, yet some websites (e.g., Gainesville Coins) are already selling graded early release proof buffalos. I checked with PCGS and they have posted a first strike cutoff for 2009 proof buffalos of Dec 3, which means their official release/ship was around Nov 3. Do we have any idea what the holdup is???

 
At November 15, 2009 at 5:50 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Apparently the first-in first-out shipping problem we saw with the UHR hasn't been corrected with the proof Buffalo gold coins. Several people who ordered within minutes after the 09 Buffalos went on sale still haven't got their coins. What the hell is going on at the U.S. Mint?

 
At November 15, 2009 at 6:35 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am relatively new to coin collecting and it seems to me that the US Mint just can't get their act together. Orders are shipped out of sequence (not FIFO), left on door steps to be stolen, their website regularly crashes when three or more people hit it at the same time (probably still uses Windows 95), etc.

Out of curiosity, has the Mint always been this bad or is this a recent occurrence?

 
At November 16, 2009 at 12:16 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Out of curiosity, for those of you who are saying that you ordered the gold buffalo coin early but still have not received your order....

Have you tried calling the toll free phone number for the US Mint's ordering service and have them trace your order? Or at least find out what the backup is?

I went to the US Mint in Washington DC last week for the penny launch, and the gold buffalo coin was in a display case, ready for anyone to purchase.

 
At November 16, 2009 at 6:33 AM , Anonymous John said...

Michael,

I got this from another website and thought I would post it here. Feel free to correct accordingly.

Thanks...


the lowest mintage:

american eagle gold unc:
one ounce - 2008w - 11,908
half ounce - 2007w - 13,358
1/4 ounce - 2008w - 8,883
1/10 ounce - 2008w 12,657

american eagle gold proof:
one ounce - 2006w rev - 10,000
half ounce - 2008w -22,602
1/4 ounce - 2008w - 18,877
1/10 ounce - 2008w - 28,116

american eagle silver unc:
one ounce - 2008w/7 - 47,000

american eagle silver proof:
one ounce - 1995w - 30,102

american buffalo gold unc:
one ounce - 2008w - 9,074
half ounce - 2008w - 16,908
1/4 ounce - 2008w - 9,949
1/10 ounce - 2008w - 17,429

american buffalo gold proof:
one ounce - 2008w - 19,591
half ounce - 2008w -12,569
1/4 ounce - 2008w - 13,903
1/10 ounce - 2008w -19,294

american eagle platinum unc:
one ounce - 2008w - 2,876
half ounce - 2008w - 2,253
1/4 ounce - 2008w - 2,481
1/10 ounce - 2008w -3,700

american eagle platinum proof:
one ounce - 2008w 4,769
half ounce - 2008w 4,000
1/4 ounce- 2008w - 4,156
1/10 ounce - 2008w 5,138

 
At November 16, 2009 at 6:41 AM , Anonymous John said...

Here is some more:

"American buffalo unc:
2006.. 337,012
2007.. 136,503
2008.. 189,500
2008w 9,074
2009.. 133,000

American buffalo proof:
2006w 246,267
2007w 58,998
2008w 19,591
2009w 27,955

lowest mintage of all American eagle and buffalo gold coin:
2008w 1/4 oz unc gold - 8,883

lowest mintage of all American eagle silver dollar:
1995w 1 ounce silver dollar - 30,102"

These are additional comments by the poster on the other blog:

"there will be price changes due to u.s.mint updated figures for 2008. like 2008w 1/4 ounce gold unc coin. the lowest of all American eagle and buffalo gold coin. see this issue to reach $2,000.00. the 1995w American silver dollar proof price will be rebound to $5,000.00 soon. and the set to $9,000.00. it maintain the lowest of all American eagle silver dollar."

 
At November 16, 2009 at 9:51 AM , Blogger GoOgLyMoOgLy said...

Thanks to this tidbit of news, it is going to be IMPOSSIBLE to find ANY 2008-W Gold or Platinum ANYTHING. I remember in the summer when tenths were going for $165 and quarters were going for $400. Nowadays, HAHAHAHAHA...they're already SKYROCKETING the same way the Buffalos did. Glad I picked up what I could before the masses caught on.

 
At November 16, 2009 at 3:42 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Low mintages do not guarantee that values will go up. As has been said time and time again, demand plays a big roles. Supply versus demand. For those who have attended college, remember what instructors taught you in Economics 101.

If mintages were directly related to values, then the First Spouse coins would be worth $1000s right now.

Food for thought....

 
At November 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think all they will need to mint in Platinum Eagles this year is 2. Look at those prices go.

 
At November 16, 2009 at 3:54 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the poster regarding Demand and values. Demand has always been Very high for both the gold Buffaloes and gold American Eagles. They are both very attractive coins that appeal to new collectors as well as veteran collectors. The low mintage combined with the demand will make 08 gold coins winners in the short term and long term.

 
At November 16, 2009 at 4:15 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of the First Spouse coins, it looks very likely that the "First Strike" disciples will be shedding tears over having to spend so much on the upcoming Margaret Taylors! Gold doesn't show any signs of slowing down.

There shouldn't be a price increase this week, but if the price doesn't back off it looks like next week we'll be flirting with the next tier of $1,150-$1,199.99. $754/$741 First Spouse coins? $1,539 Ultra High Reliefs? Whoa!

 
At November 16, 2009 at 5:09 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nothing's changed at the mint since the UHR fiasco. I was told today that most Proof Buffalo coins haven't been shipped yet, even though their website says the coin will be available Nov 20. How many orders from day one are still waiting to be filled?

 
At November 16, 2009 at 8:29 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, what do you know. Today I received notice from the US Mint that my 2009 gold proof buffalos shipped. I placed my order online about 15 minutes after they went on sale -- which was the only time the website allowed the transaction; it kept crashing prior to that time. Now we'll see how long they take to arrive at my P.O. Box...

 
At November 16, 2009 at 10:03 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess I should feel fortunate.... I ordered the buffalo proof later in the afternoon on the first day of sale and received it about a week ago. It looks great and just as nice as the '06 I have.

 
At November 17, 2009 at 8:43 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

see prices of those 2008w eagle and buffalo fractional to jump several fold.

 
At November 17, 2009 at 8:48 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

i saw price of 2008w american eagle unc 1/4 ounce gold coin traded at e-bay for $1,100.00. the lowest mintage of all eagle and buffalo. wow.

 
At November 17, 2009 at 10:26 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks like now that gold jumped up to around $1,140 people are selling off and taking their profits. That will keep the price from jumping up more for a few days. After that, the price is going to go up, up, and away again!

 
At November 17, 2009 at 10:55 AM , Blogger GoOgLyMoOgLy said...

With regards to the supply and demand, as stated, GAE's and Buff's are HOT HOT HOT. The only First Spouses that *seem* of value are the Jeffereson's Liberty and the Jackson's Liberty, as these presidents didn't have any spouses. Correct me if I'm wrong. In either case, the short term profit potential might not be there, but due to their sheer scarcity, they *will* come around, no matter how ugly they are. This is a pivotal point not only in economic history, but the US Mint as well! People ordering Proof Buff's and still not getting them, the whole fiasco with the UHR earlier this year, and the utter lack of competence of the US Mint releasing their usual collections will prove to be a moment that will be told to our grandchildren (I'm 27) one day...

 
At November 17, 2009 at 11:38 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

e-bay selling 2008w american eagle uncirculated 1/4 oz $10.00 gold coin at $1,695.00.

 
At November 17, 2009 at 11:47 AM , Anonymous John said...

I would like to thank Michael for his Mint News Blog!!!!

Based on one of his topics early this year referring to the possibility of the 2008 W $10 AGE being the least minted of the eagles, I purchased two before they sold out. There is a lot of good info to be had on this site, especially Michael's timely topics.

I owe you a lunch sometime Michael and I am good for it.

 
At November 17, 2009 at 11:51 AM , Anonymous John said...

Here is the link where Michael mentioned the potential for 2008 W coins, and specifically the AGEs.

http://mintnewsblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/2008-proof-uncirculated-gold-eagle.html

 
At November 17, 2009 at 12:12 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you were to stockpile any of the W buffalo bullions, which would you stockpile for the future market? The 1 oz or the fractionals? Ideally I'd say the 1 oz, but I'm not so sure we have an ideal situation here. Their value may get too high to turn them over easily for what they may be worth someday (suppose $5000 each). I'm sure many people would spend the premium for them if they have the $$$, but I'm worried that people in the future won't have that kind of $$$ to spend; effectively making the 1 ozs untouchable museum pieces (not very marketable, unless you are willing to sell them for less). However, the fractionals may be the solution because they nearly have the same appeal and people will be more likely to beable to afford the fractional's future premiums (suppose $1250 for a 1/10th oz). This, of course, assumes that they do go through the roof in value, which I believe to be the case; and, *disclaimer* my figures are purely arbitrary, so no need to argue my supposed figures. They were only for illustration *end disclaimer*.

On another seperate, but relate topic, if gold keeps rising and sustains secondary to an awfull economy, who thinks that a new weight will become the standard size for bullion? Will it stay 1 oz or will 1/4 oz become the new, more affordable, standard? That is one good thing about fractionals. Their lesser size makes them more affordable to the masses. 1 oz is great untill it gets too expensive and nobody can afford it. Just food for thought.

 
At November 17, 2009 at 2:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would think that if we changed the standard for the units of gold, it would be for grams. These are also divisible, but it starts at 1/31 the current size.

 
At November 17, 2009 at 6:19 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

What gives, I can't seem to find any uncirculated 2008 w $5 gold eagles in OGP, that aren't certified.Anyone up to sell one ?

 
At November 18, 2009 at 12:00 PM , Blogger GoOgLyMoOgLy said...

All are GONE. They are being snapped up as fast as people put them up. Trust me on that. There's a number of people HAWKING and SNIPING anything Burnished for 2008-W gold ANYTHING off of eBay because they WILL be classical pieces like the rarest of the $10 Eagles or the UHR of 1907. 2008 was a pivotal year for US Mint, so you better believe that there are people hoarding the hell out of those coins.

 
At November 18, 2009 at 2:34 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can have this one for a mere $400.HAHAHAHA. EBAY #190345266403

 
At November 18, 2009 at 8:28 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who's going to pay $400 for that ? I know I sure wouldn't, but then again I have 3 so I may just have to sell 1 . Any takers @ $350 ?? LOL

 
At November 19, 2009 at 10:49 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The winning bid on the bay for a 2008 w 1/4 gold eagle $925!!

 
At November 19, 2009 at 1:20 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The current fever over the 2008 W 1/4 oz unc coin is probably just one of those passing "Oh my gosh, I've got to get that one NOW!" situations.

If you want to get the REAL winner of the entire Gold American Eagle series, get yourself one of the 2006 1 oz Reverse Proof coins. It's mintage is only 1,117 higher than the 2008 W 1/4 oz unc, and it's a full ounce of gold. In my mind it's a much better value.

There are no more than 9,997 of them available out there (I know, because I own three original ungraded sets I bought directly from the Mint and they are not going ANYWHERE!), so you'd better get them while you can!

 
At November 19, 2009 at 2:42 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not sure if the 1/4 AGE Price soar in a passing phase or not. As long as gold prices holds I think this coin will keep going up as buyers fight over them.

 

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