Mint News Blog

News, Information, and Commentary on US Mint Products

Thursday, October 29, 2009

2009 American Buffalo Gold Proof Coin

Today October 29, 2009 at 12:00 Noon ET, the 2009 American Gold Buffalo Proof Coins will go on sale at the United States Mint.
Only one ounce proof coins will be offered, which is a sharp reduction from the number of collectible Gold Buffalo options offered last year. Even this single offering had been in doubt until the US Mint's announcement earlier this month.

Each coin is minted in .9999 fine, 24-karat gold, packaged in a hardwood box with a matte finish and faux leather insert. The coins are priced at $1,360 each. There is no ordering limit or maximum mintage set for the product. These details (except for the price) were revealed last week.

There are a few dueling factors that will play into the initial sales levels for the coins. The pent up demand for this popular coin suggest strong opening sales. This is supported by the continuing brisk pace of sales for the bullion version of the coin that just went on sale October 15, 2009. In the past two weeks, the US Mint has already sold 110,500 coins. Additionally, since there are no ordering limits in place for the 2009 Proof Gold Buffalo, collectors and dealers will have the opportunity to order in quantity.

On the other hand, there are a few factors which may serve to diminish early demand for the coins. The current price of the coins may serve as a deterrent. The US Mint sets prices for numismatic gold products based on the average of the preceding week's London Fix gold prices. For the relevant period, the average is $1,050.28. Even though the current price of gold is $1,035 per ounce, the coins are priced based on the US Mint's $1,050 to $1,099.99 pricing tier. If the average price of gold had been 29 cents lower, the coins would have been priced $50 cheaper. Some collectors may delay purchases to see if the average price of gold allows cheaper purchases in the coming weeks.

A second factor which may diminish the pace of early and overall sales for the coin is the lack of a maximum mintage. As discussed previously, the fact that the US Mint is not placing household limits or a maximum mintage, suggest that they are prepared to supply the coins in whatever quantity the market will bear. The resulting high mintage from this scenario diminishes the longer term prospects for the coins, especially compared to the stand out performance of last year's collectible Gold Buffalo offerings.

Today on Coin Update News:
US Mint Sales Report for 10/25/2009

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129 Comments:

At October 29, 2009 at 6:39 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am waiting till next week and the possible high mintage is a huge turnoff for me

 
At October 29, 2009 at 6:59 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

1360.00.ROFLMAO.Oh and please buy as many as you like.Laughing even harder.Wondering if Moy is doing acid.Because these prices are WAY OUT MAN!!!! ROFLMAO.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 7:09 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I won't be buying this week. No way am I going to pay the price for the $1,050-$1,099.99 tier when the average was $1,050.28 and today's AM fix was $1,034. There is a good chance the price will drop $50 next week.

I might not even buy one at all, now. It depends on the sales numbers. That money just might be better spent elsewhere.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 7:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay...I'll be the one to say it.

Is it possible that just because the Mint has placed no limits on orders that it may still sell out soon? This is one wacky mint we are dealing with here and they do have a "number" in mind for their mintages of this coin. I don't see it selling out in the next week, but I don't see it hanging out there for 3 months either. JMHO.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 7:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sure all the bullion flippers are loving this.Been watching the bullion buffalo lose money for the flippers on ebay.This should be a lesson to all of these people.That the numismatic community is fed up with price gouging by the US Mint and bullion flippers.What a complete joke coin collecting has become over the years.It is no longer a love of artistry and collect-ability.It's all about profit to most now.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 7:25 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way, Michael, I do really appreciate your efforts with this blog! Based on some of your thoughts outlined in previous articles, I did make some purchases from the Mint (specifically 2008 W Buff, prosperity set, etc.) which have really turned out well. Your page is one of my favorite web sites (including the likes of google, amazon, eBay, etc.).

Thank you so much for all you do for us small-time collectors out here!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 7:47 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am going to wait until next week and I don't have any disparaging comments for the Mint or coin dealers.

I simply don't have anything bad to say: my 2006 gold buffalo proof has nearly doubled in value and my 2008 has performed the same or better.

I'll order one next week and try to save $50 bucks.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:05 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the anonymous poster at 7:18,

You're right, there is no guarantee that the Mint won't pull these coins off-sale earlier than expected. However, I'm confident that the coin's price point, combined with the lack of any mintage or order limit, will serve to keep the "adoring masses" at bay for at least one week. :)

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:12 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting thought - Those dealers that are wanting these buffs with a first strike/early release designation will be paying the $50 premium for ordering today.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:25 AM , Blogger Michael said...

"Is it possible that just because the Mint has placed no limits on orders that it may still sell out soon?"

It's possible, but I think very unlikely. Aside from the Lincoln Coin and Chronicles Set which was limited due to legislation, the US Mint currently seems to favor making sure everyone who wants a coin is able to get one. If they cannot accomplish this, they would rather cancel the offering outright.

After the cancellation of the 2009 Proof Silver Eagle, they had provided this odd statement to Coin World:

"...even if the United States Mint had produced a small quantity of American Eagle silver proof coins, that quantity would be far from sufficient to meet the demand of all collectors who desire continuity and accordingly would be a detriment to many of them."

So, the fact that they are offering the Proof Gold Buffalo and Platinum Eagle, suggests that they are confident they can meet the demand of all collectors.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:28 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

First strikes and Early releases are nothing more then a gimmick that only a fool and his money would pay extra for.I truly wish someone would sue these companies again for this travesty.Something needs to be done about these completely ignorant labeling schemes.Any experienced coin expert can look at many of these first strike and early release coins and easily tell that they are late stage strikes.Even the US Mint warns about this type labeling and does not admit to having a first strike coin.Perhaps it should take a class action lawsuit to persuade a judge from allowing a payoff like the last lawsuit which was won in favor of these labels being bogus.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:37 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's entirely possible that we may NEVER again see silver or gold proof American Eagles. It could be the beginning of the end of the entire American Eagle program (including bullion versions), I'm afraid. Laws can always be changed.

I'm sorry to sound like a doomsayer, but it's been on my mind.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:43 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

First strike is the biggest joke I've heard for a while yet... lol

Seriously , who's buying this FS crap?

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:46 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree that while the first strike/early release designations are just ways for the grading companies and dealers to make money, there is apparently a market for them based on the premiums that people pay (including educated collectors). I remember once seeing a PCGS designation on some gold eagles (eBay) that indicated the coins were once owned by Kareem Abdul Jaber. People will pay more for those items as well, which makes no sense to a "pure" numismatist.

Ultimately, there is some level of subjectiveness with coins (graded or not)...beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For example, I may berate those that wish to buy burnished (W) coins because I think it's just a gimmick by the Mint to make more money. But we will both agree that there appears to be a market for them (personally I collect them).

My opinion is that the grading companys' most valuable service is that they authenticate coins as being real (not counterfeit Chinese lead that is gold plated). Everything else they do is secondary.

To conclude, I cannot begrudge people making a living off the marketplace as congress is now doing enough of that to go around for everybody.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:07 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To say "experienced coin expert" is redundant.

To say that an experienced collector can simply look at a coin and tell that it is a late strike coin rather than an early strike is not true unless you have some sort of evidence to support your claim. Just saying so does not make it true.

However, I also think it is just a sales gimmick. There are many MS69 and PR69 first strike eagles while there are ordinaries that are MS70 and PR70.

If you want a "ER" designation from NGC you need to send in a minimum of 5 coins. Most collectors will not be eligible for the service. Early releases must be submitted on a "Modern Special" invoice that specifies a 5 coin minimum.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:09 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just talked to the mint and they are still working on the chronicle orders and will start issuing cancellations in a week or so for those that ordered but will not be getting one...his estimate and this was only an estimate is that they sold 60k -70k of them...has anyone else heard anything.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had 2 orders on the Lincoln C&C wait list, and 1 of them has been shipped. I expect the other one will come through as well. I was at the top of the wait list though, I placed my order before the wait list was posted but when I clicked submit order I was notified about it!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:20 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bought my coins already,took less than 5 minutes.Gold keeps going up and these coins won't be for sale too long.Guarantee the mint announces production limits within the next week. If gold prices sink in the next week, cancel your order and repurchase cheaper,no brainer!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:24 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Many may think I'm crazy, but I ordered one to be safe. I'd hate to miss them all together and can by more later if prices do drop. The prices must have alot of people spooked. I got through at 12:05 EST after calling for about 5 minutes. For sales purposes my order # was 33296xxx. It's got to be within the 1st few hundred sold.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:31 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Holy cow! Gold ask has rebounded $15 so far today!

WAAAAAA!!!! I want a price drop next week!!!!!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:33 AM , Anonymous Dave said...

I’m going to try to look on the bright side of the current scenario. First of all it does seem to border on price gouging at the current mark up for the proof buffalo. Right now the mark up is over 30% which is extreme! But people will still be buying them in force today. So for those of us who are patient enough to wait till next week for a potential price drop, the higher price some will be willing to pay this week will help keep the value of our coins up. The more people pay for a coin, the more resistance there is for them to sell the coin at a lower price. That $0.28 spot avg difference that kept the price up is a bit of a blessing. Maybe we should thank all those who feel they must buy now to get the “first strike” designation. When are collectors going to wake up and realize what a scam that is?



I’ll definitely be buying a proof buffalo, but I’ll be waiting to see what the daily spot price does over the next week. My only risk is an early sellout but I don’t see that happening. If the Mint blind sides us with that then they will lose any last bit of respect they have with the collecting community. Worst case scenario…. I have to pick one up on eBay to keep my collection complete. I’m also going to pick up a bullion version. A lot of people are saying that the bullion versions look nicer than the proof for the buffalos.

PS – It’s after 12 noon and I haven’t seen any slowdown in the Mint’s website so the buffalos don’t appear to be causing a stampede today. ;-)

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:35 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, to add to my 9:24 post above. Due to ship 11/12/09. I bought mine for the collection, but I hope that the pessimism persists and that these don't sell to high numbers. It's always a roll of the dice when you buy coins with the hope that they will appreciate in value. I am confident that these will appreciate, though maybe not like the 2008's.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:48 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, but that's 500 coins in the first 3 minutes of release... might not necessarily mean lots of people are ordering these. $300 over spot is kind of steep!

Try ordering 3 minutes apart later today and if there is a big difference it might mean something.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:50 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good luck at appreciating from $1360.00.LOL

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:52 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I ordered somewhere between 10-15 minutes after the went on sale and got an 11/12/09 "available for shipping" date too (online). Did they instantly have an 11/12/09 date, or did their initial stock sell out quickly? For orders before 12:16 EST, what other "available for shipping" dates did folks get?

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:53 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anybody else noticed that the Mint's product page for the BA9 Proof Buffalo no longer has the section that says no order limits and no production limits?

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:55 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dang! There's a 2009-W PROOF GOLD $50 Buffalo NGC PF70 UC EARLY RELEASE already out there on ebay. Not only has the Mint not shipped it, the coin hasn't even been graded. Good grief!

Auction# 330370972083

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:56 AM , Anonymous Skid said...

9:20am,
Gold does not keep going up. People that put too much in gold are just asking to get burnt. Gold is a good investment, but one should be wary of gold right now at it's peak.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:57 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the poster at 9:50am "Good luck at appreciating from $1360.00.LOL"

See above post where someone is paying close to $2K for a coin that has not only NOT shipped, but hasn't been graded either.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:57 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

PRICE STAGING ON PRESALES ON EBAY

It amazes me that someone would actually pay as much as 1850.00 for a First strike proof buffalo on a presale on ebay.It makes me wonder if these prices are staged to help hike up sales.Or are there really people dumb enough to fall for this outrageous gimmick.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:01 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"9:20am,
Gold does not keep going up. People that put too much in gold are just asking to get burnt. Gold is a good investment, but one should be wary of gold right now at it's peak."

Yours is just opinion and speculation...there are people out there making cash on these coins that haven't even left the building (almost $600 for one coin in profit). Personally, I buy to hold (not sell) so I don't worry about what gold is going to be tomorrow.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:01 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

It would be so funny if all the people doing those presales have all their coins come back graded like PF65 or something, and they don't get any PF69-70 like they are promising. I would never presale a coin with a promised grade, because that's WAY too much of a risk... what if the mint does a crappy job on these? You would be in deep poopy.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:03 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha! The pre-sell/pre-grade PF70 Early Release only shows an image of the back of the coin. That's kind of funny for some reason.

Auction# 330370972083

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:04 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The person who said, "Good luck at appreciating from $1360.00.LOL" must be right because he said it, so it must be true.

My 2006 & 2008 gold buffalo proofs have doubled in value (and then some)

I don't think the person who posted that uninformed remark (with that ever so professional "LOL" at the end) knows the difference between bullion and PROOF.

Same goes for the idiot who posted, "ROTFLMAO" How old are you guys? 12?

Just because you have an opinion, (with no factual support) does not make it true. If the coin is in fact overpriced it is only by $50. It is not overpriced by $300+ because it is NOT bullion. People actually who buy the coins know the difference.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:07 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did anyone else notice that only 500 UHR's were sold by the mint last week? Sounds like people are jumping ship for the Proof Buffalo! The UHR is dead in the water anyway, why not!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:11 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:04,
My friend. Buying gold proof coins is speculative. Just because gold has gone up the last few years does not mean it will always go up. The premium over spot on the proof buffs will be hard to maintain if the price of gold infact does go down. Gold does go up, but it also goes down. You can speculate that the price of gold will continue to rise, but that's all it is, speculation.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:13 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I intend to buy one, but will wait until next week and hopefully get it for $50 less. Spot price is up $17 today but still below $1,050. As to gold's eventual direction, i am bullish in the long run based on deficits as far as the eye can see.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:13 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

***SOLD OUT**** 2009 Gold Buffalos!









would be a bad joke wouldn't it?

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:16 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEY, THAT'S NOT FUNNY! MOY MIGHT REALLY TAKE THESE OFF SALE AT A RANDOM TIME FOR NO REASON! DON'T PLAY WITH ME LIKE THAT, YO!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:17 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you think that $1850 is a phoney, staged price I can tell you that I sold an Early Release 2009 Double Eagle for $2500. I only paid $1189 for the coin + about $50 for grading and shipping.

The problem is that all you people who complain and post disparaging comments is that you lack the resources (both financial and in brainpower) to make any money for yourselves so all you can do is complain and criticize.

People who sell coins do it for a PROFIT, so they can feed their families, in the same way that you sell car tires or accounting services or hamburgers.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re; "Sold Out", It's unlikely to happen in one week. Michael has a good point. The Mint is likely to have a fair amount of capacity for these, or they would have put limits in place.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:19 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can also speculate on which road to take to work in the morning...but eventually I have to get in the car and get there. We all have decisions to make and then we get to live by them. While some speculate gold is on a bubble about to burst, others (just as intelligent) may speculate the opposite.

This is a numismatic site and is more about collecting and less about how much money can be made or timing a purchase (although that is part of it). Therefore, there will be people posting on this site with the former perspective and less concerned with the latter. No need to insult because of a difference in opinion on a secondary aspect of collecting (IMO).

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:20 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another thing to take into account when you see people have high prices on eBay is the fees... with expensive coins, the seller HAS to make the price up $200 to break even when you take into account the ebay/paypal fees... it might look like they are making like a thief, but in reality their profit can be less than $100 after fees. That's the way it works though. The sellers don't keep a chunk of the money they have to charge.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:31 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the 10:18 blogger.
I'm sure you have no problem sleeping at night either.What a shame people like you even exist.You are no better then the grading companies who help you push this crap.Think of the loss you have created to the person who paid you that much for that coin.And I bet you could care less.There is no way that person would be able to recover that loss.And you sleep good at night just by saying it helped feed your family.Shame on you is all I can say.

Grandma

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:31 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have the intelligence and the financial resources. I got these by knowing that commodities such as gold go up AND down. 2009 Gold Buffalos are a gamble. Gold has peaked and I don't see it going much higher in the short term. Good economic news and the gold bubble will burst.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:35 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

While this site is for both investers and collectors alike, I don't think we want people on this site if they don't respect coin collecting and simply flip for profit. IT's too much like prostitution.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:49 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's hard not resist the sunken treasure ship appeal towards coin collecting (the idea of striking it rich with little to no effort) but treasure hunters aren't sticking it to their fellow man. Price gouging is immoral. Watching from the sidelines it is unbelievable to see it happen. How on earth are people so dishonest and, almost more shocking, is how do people fall for it bait and sinker? What does this say about our country? It scares the s@#t outta me how foolish people can be.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 11:02 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

People like the 10:18 blogger is the exact people who have ruined collecting for what it is meant to represent.A way to show our children the history of our country through artistry and a story of how our country was made.And what is worse.He has the gall to come on here and brag about how he ripped someone off.And then try to pass it off as being ok just so he can feed his family.The one point he failed to make is.There are those in this country that are proud to say they work hard to make an honest living.I hardly think his way is honest. That is the difference.to say I lack brainpower or resources is a joke.To say you lack respect for this hobby is a fact.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 11:06 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Saying gold is at a top and can't go higher is just plain silly."new high" means just that UNTIL it is broken and sets a NEWER HIGH. Me personally I don't care what the price of gold or my coins are because i am buying them year after year.Some years the price is lower and others the price is higher.I don't plan on selling my coins for many years anyway.I collect for the love of collecting and when my coins appreciate in value all the better. I was thinking of selling one of my 2008 4 piece gold buffalo sets just because it appreciated so much so quickly.Bought it for a little over $2000 and have had offers up to$5000 from reputable dealers.Not bad for a year! When i can sell one set for $8000 i will,keeping the other 3 sets I have for free!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 11:08 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry I meant the 10:17 blogger was ruining our hobby.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 11:12 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think I have ever met a coin dealer that wasn't previously a used car salesman.LOL

 
At October 29, 2009 at 11:24 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the 9:53 blogger,

You're right, those little tidbits of information HAVE been removed! If the Mint cuts those coins off before next week, those who paid the extra $50 will be laughing at those of us who didn't...all the way to the bank!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 11:28 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The United States Mint has not designated any 2005 or 2006 American Eagle Coins or 2006 American Buffalo Coins as "first strikes," nor do we track the order in which we mint such coins during their production.

The boxes marked with shipping dates are only the dates that the box was filled by the fulfillment center.Meaning the shipping dates accepted for first strike and early release are completely bogus.

These grading companies accepting these dates are misleading the collectors.There is no way to know when a coin was struck by the US Mint.

Case closed

 
At October 29, 2009 at 11:31 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

You people fussing about guys making money selling coins should be ashamed of yourselves. Nobody makes people pay high prices for coins, they choose to. It's fair and square.

Everyone selling the coins is just a capitalist, not a crook or scammer. It's the free market at it's finest. Grow up and control your jealousy. I invest in coins and I sell them for a good profit, and there is nothing remotely wrong or dishonest about it - would you rather I get a ski mask and a 9mm and break into your house at 4 am? That's what a REAL dishonest crook does. Me? I'm just a good businessman. Hate away......

 
At October 29, 2009 at 11:41 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are no better then someone with a 9 mm breaking into a house in my book.read the blog above yours and you can see just how dishonest you really are.You take advantage of people by breaking the truth which is widely used by two so called top grading companies.Without that label you would have nothing.So stop lying and get into an honest business you crook.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 11:58 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read recently that PCGS "helped" apprehend crooks who were manufacturing counterfeit coins. It made me wonder who will call PCGS up on their "FS" rubbish as well as other practices. Despite the Mint publishing a disclaimer on "FS" it could not force them to admit they were peddling nonsense. Is something honest and legal just because they (PCGS, NGC) hyper market this nonsense, causing innocent people to make purchases, imagining that they will benefit in the future from a mere label. I have come across many a PCGS 70 which was grossly overgraded. After dealing with PCGS I concluded they were just an arrogant bunch who imagine theirs is the final word. It is up to collectors and consumers to say enough!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:06 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the 11:41 AM blogger,

Don't be so hard on the 11:31 AM blogger. He said he sells coins for a profit, but you immediately jumped to the conclusion that he sells graded coins with "First Strike" or similar nonsense labels. He only said he sells coins for a profit, not GRADED coins. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with selling RAW coins in their original U.S. Mint shipping state to buyers who CHOOSE (as he intelligently pointed out) to buy them.

There is WAY too much hate on this board sometimes. Can't we all just focus on the one thing we all truly enjoy...collecting and talking about coins? We should all be mutual friends here!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:12 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alright, back to coin collecting talk. Can anybody post their partial order number so we can see about how many proof buffalo have sold since 1205 with the order number of 33296xxx.

sincerly,
An anonymous coin collector not interested in politics, opinions, or bickering

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:16 PM , Blogger Bowtie said...

i think the 2009 fractional coins will appreciate much better.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:16 PM , Blogger Bowtie said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:17 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sure there are dealers that have bought 50-100 per order. So order numbers are going to give you a good idea.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:19 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Bullion coins should be legislated by congress to be offered directly from the mint to individuals. The little guy always gets screwed. We should be able to purchase bullion without a middleman mark-up.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:20 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

are NOT going to give a good count. sorry

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:23 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's true 1220 pm, but I'm still curious if they have sold closer to 5000 or 15000. It's just an approximation.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:24 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the 12:06 blogger.

Obviously you did not read this statement by that same blogger.

"Everyone selling the coins is just a capitalist, not a crook or scammer. It's the free market at it's finest. Grow up and control your jealousy."

That in it's self told me what kind of seller he is.If he doesn't sell those types of coins then good for him.He is still a coin flipper and only does it because it is a business to him.I think him saying he is a good businessman also relates to the fact that he probably does sell the first strikes and early release coins.I may have assumed he did by those statements.A good businessman knows how to read between the lines.And his lines looked pretty crooked to me.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 12:49 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

For English speaking businessmen, several of you have terrible spelling and grammer. I hope you can count patrons' change better than you can write!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 1:16 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bowtie - I disagree with the 09 fractional bullion. What fractional bullion is worth more? The $5 gold has one year better than others. The rest are bullion. If they end the program, then fractional premiums might increase. Otherwise the 09 will be the same as the 08, etc. IMHO

John

 
At October 29, 2009 at 1:22 PM , Blogger Bowtie said...

I think that the fractional coins will have a bigger premium in the secondary market. They are somewhat limited and entry level buyers are looking to spend closer to 1/10 ounce of gold rather than a full ounce. Either way I think I am not getting the 2009 buffalo proof. I purchased 2 of the UHR coins and I think that the high mintage will make them sell like a bullion coin. Instead I'll pay the $900 premium for a 2008 w buffalo with the approx. 9600 minted. 10 years from now I think I'll have made up that $900 difference.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 1:32 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To break even in ten years is ummmmm not smart in my opinion.But to each there own.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 1:39 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a far cry from last week's Lincoln C & C Set. Orders are LOW for this Rip Off Proof Coin.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 2:33 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do yourself a favor before you go out a pay one of these crooks 1850.00 for a false first strike buffalo proof.Go out and buy an older double eagle that will hold its value much better then the crap these flippers are selling.They don't need a special label to hold value.When it finally is realized by all collectors that the first strike nonsense has been a scam.All the people who invested big bucks in this crap will be crying and the only people laughing will be the crooks who peddled this junk.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 2:45 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Mint can keep these Buffalo's together with the 4 cent rolls that were overpriced. I'm totally done with them anytime they charge outlandish prices. Others can pay if they choose, but I simply will not be hosed over & over & over again by an inept organization. 51 yrs of dealing with the Mint, screwed time & time again.......my fault, no one held a gun to my head. But no more!

 
At October 29, 2009 at 2:51 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I second that 35 years and I'm done.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 3:02 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:57pm ET order# 33300XXX

 
At October 29, 2009 at 3:18 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I meant to say 12:57pm CT not ET

 
At October 29, 2009 at 3:32 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, if you really like the buffalo and can afford it buy it. If you are an investor take your chances or don't. For those that spend a lot of money on coins please do some research as I suspect most of you do. There is plenty of info on the internet. ER's and FS's are just a gimmick to me but so far its still a free country and there are a number of people who want that on their coin. As far as I'm concerned the correct lable should be "FIRST COINS OUT THE DOOR." People can get cheated on any product. Everything cannot be controlled that tightly unless you want government regulated coin collecting and have a government BCR (Bureau of Coin Regulation) agent check your collection and dealers. As for how long the buffalo will be available at the mint. Probably at least a few months but I say who knows for sure. The US mint is about as stable as a balloon in hurricane. By the way this Mint News Blog has the best US Mint coin info along with entertaining comments.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 5:10 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

FACTS FOR TODAY:

Eighty years ago today the bottom dropped out and the stock market officially crashed.

Today the dems officially announced that the Health care bill with government option health plan will be a reality.

Isn't this an amazing comparison?

Yet people are thinking about buying a buffalo gold coin.LOL

 
At October 29, 2009 at 5:20 PM , Anonymous dash said...

I don't get the comparison........

 
At October 29, 2009 at 5:21 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know why people have such a big problem with FS or ER coins. I am a collector, love history and also invest in coins for my kids. Having FS's and ER's just gives ppl a little more bragging right and makes the whole process fun. If you don't like it then dont buy it. Everyone has an opportunity to do it.
With regards to buying coins for ONLY historical purposes and so on, that is rediculous. How many of us truyly bought a buffalo or a UHR just for the fun of it. Everyone has an agenda and we should respect that. And if we really disagree with what they are doing then DONT buy their coins. As a person that got late into collecting coins, I have no other choice but to turn to dealers and if they have set a price that the market accepts I/we pay, its called supply and demand therefore a corresponding price is always attached to it. I love this country for allowing people to do what they want to do, some of you take that freedom for granted.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 5:25 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eighty years ago there were some people who were able to and chose to partake in things many others couldn't. Buffalo or no buffalo life goes on.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 5:40 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous 5:21

+1

Well said. I don't understand all the anger about first strikes.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 6:09 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nothing like paying 1300.00 or 1400.00 over original price for bragging rights.LOL.This just proves that there really are fools with money out there.Understand this.First strikes and early releases are out right lies to fool poor older people like the 5:21 blogger.But it is your money to waste as you wish.Don't say you were not warned about impending loses.Just go around and brag that you were fooled by these crooks LOL. For those who think I'm angry.I'm not angry at all.I'm just trying to warn people from being angry when they lose money trying to resell this junk.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 6:18 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think he will be bragging to his buddies when he loses money reselling that first strike coin he paid 2500.00 for LOL.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 6:38 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't really have an opinion either way over the FS or ER. But it seems to me alot of folks on here are dogging them. Mostly likely from jealousy.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 6:51 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it is more likely that they are smart enough not to fall for the gimmick and get ripped off.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 7:02 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have money buy. Don't have, don't buy (incl. F/S and ER). Want to save $50/ea on 09 Buff and take very little chance of a sold out, wait till next week.
Stop talking nonsense.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:13 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got through at exactly 12:00 PM. I had to chuckle. They actually had an option for the Braille set. Press 1 for Braille, and 2 for ALL other products. Come on...somebody PLEEEASE buy these. The woman that took my order said that I was the first one that she had taken an order from. Order number 33296xxx.

Oh, Michael, you might want to remove the post from 9:45 AM. We can figure out what his order numbers are.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:28 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:02 Blogger said... "Want to save $50/ea on 09 Buff and take very little chance of a sold out, wait till next week."

Ordered two coins today. They are back ordered till 11-12. If price drops in the next two weeks I'll order again then cancel the previous orders.

I buy mostly to collect but with the buffalo's I've bought two of every proof item sold since '06 with an eye towards selling one "set" in the future. Even buying the '09 at $1360 puts me ahead of the game "so far". If gold drops back to $500 I'm toast but I'm not holding my breath. Either way, one set will stay with me till death.. They are the most beautiful gold coins I've ever seen.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 8:40 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen to the last post...in all respects!

I think the buffalo and the UHR are both very nice gold coins. The AGE is nice too, but there's something about the buffalo and UHR...they are just really nice to look at.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 9:58 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just curious.... why is there an $80 difference between the UHR and the American Buffalo Gold Proof Coin?? They are both Gold Proof Coins that are made of one ounce of .9999 24K Gold. Am I missing something here??

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:19 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the Mint feels the Ultra High Relief should cost more due to the manufacturing process involved. It's more costly to produce the dies.

 
At October 29, 2009 at 10:57 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Concerning the money grubbing TGPs efforts to create premiums for essentially basic, average raw Buffalos by awarding First Strike MS69s.....

It is interesting that a large bullion dealer today lists 2009 raw buffalos in Mint plastic for sale at $3 MORE than the same 2009 Buff in a nice plastic sandwich that says First Strike MS69.

 
At October 30, 2009 at 5:17 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Special thanks to Michael on his website. I'm very new to coin collecting so his work helps a lot.

As for the rest of you, I've been going to coin auctions and reading comments on Michael's boards and noticed the "mind games" coin collectors love to play on each other. It's more entertaining than buying coins.

I bought the UHR's(11) 2009 Buffalo bullion(7) and 1 Buffalo proof yesterday. I'll continue to buy more proof as price changes if available....because...."I LOVE THEM !! THEY SHINE,ARE SO BEAUTIFUL AND I LOVE TO HOLD THEM"
they all go into my "Trust" that will be sold for charity when the time is right.

 
At October 30, 2009 at 5:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not commenting on the previous post, just a question about our language. How does one grubb money? Seriously, what does grubb mean?

 
At October 30, 2009 at 7:26 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a feeling a lot of the 2009 bullion Buffaloes are grading out 69. Tulving will trade you 20 raw eagles for 20 slabbed 69 buffaloes. Straight across and they pay shipping.


John

 
At October 30, 2009 at 7:44 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Grub
verb

Slang. to scrounge: to grub a cigarette

 
At October 30, 2009 at 10:49 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gold is a dropping today!

 
At October 30, 2009 at 11:04 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gold is dropping because it's the end of the month.

 
At October 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe we'll get the Proof buff at 1310 next week.

 
At October 30, 2009 at 11:58 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's see the sales reported for the proof buff next week...

Another UHM - Ultra high mintage in the making?

 
At October 30, 2009 at 4:54 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think they should produce more buffalo gold coins than there are real buffalos...

Bring back the buffalo.


Willy

 
At October 30, 2009 at 6:29 PM , Blogger Tyrone said...


Gold does not keep going up. People that put too much in gold are just asking to get burnt. Gold is a good investment, but one should be wary of gold right now at it's peak.


Folks, gold is not going up, your dollar$ are going down. I suggest anyone that is not becoming well-versed in inflation and monetary crisis to start learning. The actions of your government have put gold on a path to $2000/oz. This will not make you rich, it will simply preserve your purchasing power if you exchange fiat paper for it. If they stay on this course, the end-game could be dire.

As always, do your homework and set your own risk levels.

 
At October 30, 2009 at 11:55 PM , Anonymous Hidalgo said...

I really feel sorry for many of you who are getting caught up in the frenzy of buying gold.

I remember the days when the price of gold was being pushed up to the $800 per ounce level. Very high at the time. People bought gold like crazy. But when the bubble burst, many people lost money.

We're experiencing a bubble period right now. And bubble conditions don't last forever. Please keep that in mind. Look at what happened when there were bubbles in the housing market and stock market. One day, some day, we may be able to recoup lost values in both markets, but it will take time. Some can and will be said with the gold market.

Don't get caught up in the frenzy. The best time to buy is when demand -- and prices -- are low.

 
At October 31, 2009 at 8:09 AM , Blogger Bowtie said...

Inflation adjusted, housing prices are never coming back. I don't think we have a gold bubble yet, although we will. When everyone is buying gold to the same extent people were buying houses, then you have the bubble.

 
At October 31, 2009 at 9:02 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said @4:54...

I don't think they should produce more buffalo gold coins than there are real buffalos...

Bring back the buffalo.

I agree completely! That would keep mintages low. To be close to them in person is amazing! Besides being magnificent beasts, they taste GREAT!

 
At October 31, 2009 at 9:03 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The proof coins are made with the collector in mind not the speculator. Yes, even as a collector you like to see your coins increase in value. But you are never disappointed if you collect coins you really like. If you are a pure speculator you are on and emotional roller coaster in a guessing game and subject to massive disappointment if value drops...

 
At October 31, 2009 at 10:27 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love real Buffalo's. Their wings are quite delicious.

 
At October 31, 2009 at 11:21 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually the best part of Buffalo is the testicle. Try it, you'll like it. Wings of buffaloes are all skin.
Oh sorry,I thought I was in the food blog. What do I know about coins.

 
At November 1, 2009 at 8:48 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bought two Buffalo coins. To me, its a collectors piece that I believe will hold its value and beauty. The same goes for the UHF. I like the Buffalo because its a proof coin. I chose not to have either graded. They are in sealed plastic holders and I have the receipts for both. The next person that owns them can have them opened and placed in those big holders. I do agree that the US Mint has began to charge top dollar and their supplies are very limited in regards to silver. The 2009 Silver Proof set was WAY overpriced!

 
At November 1, 2009 at 11:25 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

does anyone know what these proff buffalos will be worth this time next year

 
At November 1, 2009 at 1:22 PM , Blogger Bowtie said...

probably 1 million dollars.

 
At November 1, 2009 at 1:46 PM , Anonymous Hidalgo said...

Part of the value will be based on the price of gold next year. Gold values are very unstable, so it will be hard to predict where its value will be next year. Now that the recession has "officially" ended in the US, it's anyone guess where the price of gold will be next year.

-------------------------
Anonymous said...

does anyone know what these proff buffalos will be worth this time next year

November 1, 2009 11:25 AM

 
At November 1, 2009 at 4:55 PM , Anonymous Dave said...

I recently ordered a bullion buffalo… first time I’ve purchased the bullion version. I don’t send coins in for grading… not my gig. Should I leave it in the plastic, or put it in a capsule? I would think it would look nicer in a capsule than a crinkly plastic baggie.

 
At November 1, 2009 at 7:12 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dave,

I prefer to leave my coins in their original state (including bullion buffalo coins in their plastic), but you should do with it whatever would make you happiest. It's your coin and your collection, so you should organize and present it however you wish.

 
At November 1, 2009 at 7:30 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

how much of the price of gold reflects on inflation

 
At November 2, 2009 at 8:04 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a big difference between gold and houses. Gold has a limited supply...houses can be built anywhere (including on cliffs in CA where they fall into the ocean). The demand for houses is also geographically limited (why buy a house in China). However, gold is in demand universally.

Not saying what the price of gold will do...just saying that comparing houses and gold is like comparing apples and oranges.

All that said, the proof buffalo is a collectible (and a beautiful one at that).

 
At November 2, 2009 at 8:05 AM , Blogger Bowtie said...

also you technically rent houses from the state as you pay property taxes on it. gold is harder to tax.

 
At November 2, 2009 at 10:57 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen Bowtie...amen!

 
At November 2, 2009 at 3:00 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dream on gold speculators.... When the gold market bubble bursts, you'll be thinking back about why you spent so much money on gold...

Check out the Newsweek article below:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/220402

 
At November 2, 2009 at 4:25 PM , Anonymous Dave said...

Maybe it’s just me, but the article posted above makes gold look that much more attractive to me.

 
At November 3, 2009 at 5:44 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I find it hilarious that shorters of gold come to this coin collecting website to try and dissuade collectors from buying what they do for a hobby. As they like to say, LOL or ROFLMAO - whatever...

The stock sites are the same...shorters always trying to scare long-term holders into selling their stock to drive down the price so they (the shorters) can make money. Like I'm going to go out and sell (or not buy) gold coins that I collect as a hobby just because they tried to scare me.

Notice the faux concern that they have for the way collectors spend their money. Like they really, really care...what a joke! Truth be known, they have basically placed a monetary bet that the price of gold drops and are just trolling sites they think can help them make profit (like the actions of collectors on this site is going to affect the worldwide price of gold).

To All Shorters - You should be trolling the gold selling websites and stock boards. This is a numismatic website.

 
At November 3, 2009 at 6:43 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gold is going up and will continue to do so for the next year I believe. I buy the Buffalo Proof gold coins and have since they began because the picture of the Indian looks exactly like my Dad. He is 1/8 Indian and it has always amazed me to look at my Dad's picture on the coin. Also I do think it is the most beautiful Gold coin the US mint has produced. I don't care if the value goes up or down for now because I am thinking of future generations having them to enjoy.
I also think the coin in silver is beautiful. It is one coin that represents our country from the beginning of its birth. I love Sacagawea dollars also for that reason!

 
At November 3, 2009 at 7:07 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a great site on coins and collecting. Anyone remember the movie "Throw Momma from the Train" when Danny Devito shows Billy Crystal his coin collection? I was expecting him to pull out a coin album nearly full of coins and he pulls out a little bag with about 65 cents in coins that his dad had given him from various events that had meaning to him. Now this was only a movie but it represents the collector. You don't have to make anyone else happy with your collection. Just yourself. Something with value and meaning to you may not be to someone else.

 
At November 3, 2009 at 7:55 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Dave Harper:

"Gold proof one-ounce Buffalo coin sales got off to a strong start.

In the first three days since orders began being accepted by the Mint on Oct. 29, collectors ordered 19,600 coins. There was no individual order limit imposed.

This number already equals the total number of the 2008 proof one-ounce Buffalo pieces sold."

It appears that the Mint will NOT be dropping the price on the 2009 W Buffalo Proof as the weekly London AM fix will very likely average above $1050/ounce.

 
At November 3, 2009 at 8:10 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gold is up $20 per ounce today... here we come $1,100 per ounce!

I just love how China wants to back their currency with gold... google "china buying gold" and read the articles that it brings up, AND THEN TELL ME THE PRICE OF GOLD AIN'T GOING THROUGH THE ROOF.

It's common sense and basic math, the price of gold has and will continue to take off like a rocket! Thanks, commies!

 
At November 3, 2009 at 5:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

so much for you know it all 's saying gold gonna go down. This is just a trend that's gonna continue. dollar deflaits gold inflates dollar defates gold inflates. Country 's are going to continue to use bullion to protest there wealth with china grownig to conquer the world there be next to stock up just to be a superpower.It might go down here and there but will climb little by little or 40.00 a day !

 
At November 6, 2009 at 11:26 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the previous poster. I read a good many of the previous posts. So many of you smart folks here waited to get a "better" price. Not smart. If you know anything about gold, and it's prices recently, you'll know that for the past 8 years, year over year, gold has seen an increase in price. Why should that stop now, right before the next bailout package is announced? Wake up. As far as the idiot who said this Buffalo Proof coin is a "rip off", you're as clueless as can be, and no nothing about numismatics. Read, listen and learn, young grasshopper.

 
At November 7, 2009 at 7:56 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the other hand what your seeing know is a price and demand senerio.
After all the high roller sell there gold price will go down.The only thing fueling this demand is record high prices. The fact is with all the scrap gold and increase in mining gold will be in abundence and the bouble will burst. Its a good time to sell if you bought cheap but not to buy.

 
At November 7, 2009 at 7:59 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gold will continue to rise but if you buy now youll pay a premium price.

 

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