Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin Mintage
The final sales figure for the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin is being reported as 115,178 by Numismatic News.
This number is 3,113 higher than the number reported on the last available sales report from December 27, 2009. This indicates that there was a small surge in last minute orders during the final days of availability. In the preceding three one-week periods, the coins had recorded sales of 587, 1,887, and 1,384.
Before the coin went on sale, the unlimited mintage represented somewhat of an uncertainty and a possible draw back. After several weeks of heavy ordering, sales settled into a steady pace amidst a few bumps higher, which coincided with increases in the household ordering limit.
Overall, the pace of sales remained relatively moderate. The initial ordering limit of one per household kept a restraint on sales at a time when excitement about the offering was highest. When limits were raised and eventually lifted, prices were higher and some of the excitement had faded.
In my opinion, for a single year issue of a very unique offering, this mintage at this level is at a reasonable level to support continued premiums.
Labels: Ultra High Relief
posted by Mint News Blog @ 11:53 AM
41 Comments:
OMG PEOPLE... it's a modern gold coin with a mintage of 115,000!! that equals ultra common!
Premiums will go down, down, down...
Every single other gold coin produced this past year is and will always be rarer the the UHR.
You might as well have thrown your money in a supermassive black hole if you "invested" in this coin... did you get some John Tyler rolls to go with it too, cuz you know the premium on those is about to explode!
Seriously, give it up - the UHR is a bullion coin now and will be so in the future. I can get one for a small premium over spot anytime in the next 20 years.
I'll stop beating the dead horse now.
I respectfully disagree with you. The coin should always command a nice premium, simply because you can't just buy a 2008 or 2010 UHR instead. One-year only issues of mass appeal are always in demand.
Poster # 1, take it easy young fellow. You sound like someone who was betting against the prices all year, and didn't buy one. Maybe yes, maybe no. Obviously many folks did for whatever reason people buy anything. I don't challenge your decision not to buy one of these, perhaps the idea of instant 'rarity' or very low mintage guides your decisions to acquire coins. I must tell you that I too own one, yes only 1, and I didn't buy it either. It was a birthday gift from my older son who graces my personal collection with numismatic items he will inherit one day. Smart boy. When I opened the little outer box last May and saw what it was, my reaction was "Wow". He laughed and said something to the effect that he was 'salting' his future with items that will increase in value 'later on'.
Surely you are keenly aware that mintages mean nothing as years go bye. Rarity changes over time. High mintage coins have been bagged and melted away into bars, rounds, and industrial use every time the economic cycle favors high silver & gold prices. The average person doesn't scan coins for special dates/mint marks that are turned in for melt value. While we peg values based on reported mintage totals, you wouldn't want to bet those totals hold true.
Maybe a bit long winded, but don't fret too much about the UHR's having a 115K production. Years from now, that number most probably won't mean diddly. ~Grandpa.
Premiums on most modern coins will be held in check by the significant number/availability of coins graded 69 or "perfect" by the services - reflecting better production methods.
Any examples of somewhat modern coins with this high mintage with a premium?
Thank goodness I have a fist strike...I know many of you don't like that but hey it makes me happy!
Poster #1. Get a clue!
The original St.G double eagles AVERAGED over one million PER year! The 1928 alone minted over 8.8 million gold double eagles!
The mintages for the proof buffs already exceeds the UHR.
0.115 mil is likely much less than anticipated likely from the high price of gold that is likely here to stay as long as we keep buying stuff from China.
I just received my UHR a few days ago SO the last 3000 or so orders actually have the right to return them for a refund for a few more days.
Personally I was disappointed with the one per household limit being lifted. I think a great thing became an ok thing.. No loss but not real future gain. 50K would have been a nice number....
Bowtie,
Try the 2006 Buffalo Gold Proof coin. It's mintage was around 250,000 and it sells for $1,300-$1,400 today, or a good $200-$300 over spot price. It's even better when you consider that it only cost $800 the entire time it was available from the Mint. It was a product from back in the "good old days" when the Mint did not adjust prices every darn week. Those who bought that one at issue price are making out like bandits today.
The Ultra High Relief coin will always have demand and will always command a nice premium over spot. Of course, the price of the coin WILL be affected by serious drops in the price of gold, so it is not foolproof. If gold spot drops to $500, the coin will still sell for at least $800 or so. That is not a good thing, but it is not a TOTAL loss either. The price ranges of $1,189-$1,539 that it sold for during 2009 from the Mint obviously gives a disadvantage to those who bought on the high end of the scale.
Unless gold takes a serious dive, this coin will sell for a great price for many who bought it from the Mint.
Reality check: 1/3 of TOTAL UHR were sold in the first week (late Jan). If limits were kept in place total mintages would not have been much different. Any thoughts about this Michael?
If you think about it, that's only 115,000 of a one shot coin in a world of billions of people. I'll take those odds.
Price is supply and demand related unless the gov't interferes. You may have a mintage of 8000 like the '09 Platinum but if no one else wants it the premium will primarily come from the rise in metal price. If you have a 1 million mintage and 50 million want it then price adjusts upward fast. Also demand may change over the years. Many collectors like the classic designs. These nearly always improve with age. Madonna sitting on a commode on a platinum coin will sell for now but in the future? I dunno maybe it still would get a premium.
Big difference between a gold coin minted for daily use. Of the millions, how many were melted down over the years.
T
Looks like the 2009 Kenneday Halves are sold out now. I doubt it will matter much, though.
I just sold my last UHR coin this weekend. I am sad to let it go, but I needed to free up such cash. I believe most of the readers on this board can agree that the coin will hold a premium over the spot price by at least 300 dollars. So that gives the coin it's bottom. If gold goes to 700 the coin will sell for at least 1000. Yes that would be a loss for every one who hold the coin, but with the economy the way it is I would say the chance is greater than %50 percent that as the years go by gold holds at the current level or higher. Now the second factor besides the price of gold is the genuine demand for the coin. I think this is a slam dunk that as years go by people will still want this coin just look at the one year buffalo fractionals. Folks when some new collector or someone who finally has the funds to acquire the coin ten years from now wants to purchase a ultra high relief gold eagle guess what the only year available will be 2009 with a total mintage of .115 million assuming that gold did not shoot to the moon and thousands get melted before then. I also wanted to talk about the micro scratches that some people were mentioning earlier. I purchased a total of 11 of the coins of which only 3 were graded ms70 from pcgs. most of the coins with the exception of the first two that I had ordered were in my opinion perfect and i just could not understand how they could be ms69 when for all practical purposes these coins represent the mints best technology and highest striking pressures of all time. So I studied them intently looking for some flaw of this truly beautiful coin and the only thing I spotted was very small polish marks from the die that appear as small micro scratches in the obverse field.In fact this coin was struck so well it appeared prooflike. These small marks in my opinion are from the polished dies and should not of knocked the coin to a 69, since it is not a defect in the coin itself. I would be curious to see some ngc graded prooflike uhr's to see if the scratches are more prevalent in the well struck coins.
Keep in mind folks the 115K mintage is to satisfy all future coin collectors. It's a solid investment. Period! Unless of course you just wanted to flip the coin in 6 months then that's your problem.
I believe many of you are missing the point. This coin was minted for collectors. Sure, some speculators bought as well, but there is better methods than buying gold coins with $300-$400 dollar premiums. Most collectors don't check the price their coin is bringing every other day.
I for one will not be selling my UHR whether the price is $10 or $10,000. I bought it because I enjoy the coin.
There will always be flippers, they were around when gold was $35 an oz. too. Good luck with that. Same for the folks buying plastic and paper labels.
Man, if the price was $10,000 for an UHR I would sell both of mine in a HEARTBEAT! I would simply retain fond memories of once owning two of them while I enjoyed spending the money! :)
An UHR sold for $1700 in ORIGINAL packaging today on ebay.
The UHR is a collector coin and as an added bonus if you have to or want to sell it should always bring a premium. So I think it is a winner all the way around. I would have preferred a slightly larger version maybe 1 oz. at 90% purity or 1 1/2 oz. of pure. But in looking back we are probably now lucky we even got what we got. It would never happen now.
@Anon January 14, 2010 2:50 PM:
Please don't hit me with your fist strike.
Thank you.
I just wonder if anyone collects coins for their beauty anymore, or is it all about making a profit tomorrow???? I LOVE my UHR, it is and always will be one of my favorite coins. If gold drops to $100 an oz next week, I could care less, I bought the coin for the coin, not for the gold it is made from.
Re: Gold Price in 2010 and beyond,
Since the Central Bank of India purchased 200 metric tons of gold last fall, at about $1050 per ounce, it is highly unlikely that we see the gold price falling beyond that point.
Looking at the macro-economic picture and the quantative easing done in all over the world, the gold price will likely to go up this year. At the end of this year, most people expect $1400 to 1600.
Jim Rickards (respected economist) was on CNBC, and he mentioned that on the basis of fundamentals alone, gold should be $2000, and the price may be set at $4000 to $11,000 if we are to use gold as true monetary metal.
The bottom line; keep collecting your silver and gold coins and HOLD ON TO them. I am doing my part.
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast_Gold+/Entries/2010/1/9_Jim_Rickards.html
One yr only issue at 115K mintage (and a popular design) I'm guessing it will be a valuable keep in 5-10 yrs time.
Look at the 2001 only Silver Buffalo. At 500K mintage this one yr onl silver is a much valued coin today. Only wished I had started collecting coins earlier. The 2001 silver buffalo is a classic imo.
I'd forgotten about the silver buffalo mentioned above. Good example of high mintage and very high demand equal premium. Silver fractional buffaloes from the mint; wow, what great collectable coins those would be irregardless even if value did not increase. Just dreaming.
As far as I see it, if the UHR didn't spike up at the close of 2009, this coin will never get a big premium over spot. That is ok. It is a beautiful coin, but if there was ever a time for it to really take off, it would have happenend by now....
The UHR will slowly rise since many dealers and investors can't afford to hold to this coin since it costs so much to begin with. A 1999 silver proof set didn't tie up anyones serious assets so few would sell. Once the investors sell in the next few months, the coin will become scarce and the value will skyrocket. On a personal note, I own several UHR for my family, and like many others, I do not plan on selling any of them.
I understand your first two sentences. The third one doesn't make sense economically. How does investors selling a coin in the next few months to release some cash make a coin scarce. The very fact of selling the coin removes its scarcity. Those who buy can also be willing to sell. Just like coin dealers do every day. People sell for many reasons. Just because a few say they will hold a coin forever doesn't mean they will. This coin will always be a special coin, but certainly not worth double its bullion value. There are way to many of them out there to justify that.
To commenter above. Its all about demand. Refer to the slightly earlier comments on silver buffalo; high mintage PLUS high demand will give premium. I may have a $2 glass coffee cup from Walmart with a small bubble in the glass. Looks like an error cup and a one of. Its very scarce but I haven't yet put it on ebay. Going once, going twice, sold for 25 cents.
To commentator at 8:58. Good point. However, I don't see the demand.
To January 17, 2010 11:17 PM
Just because you think in the short term demand from UHR will not be there doesn't mean it won't be beyond a longer term time frame.
I'm sure the sellers in early 2001-2003 in the Silver buffalos think like you too (short term outlook and did not ride ut the longer term trend)
In any case, the future is not set; but for you to write off the UHR this early (less then 1mth after it went out of sale) ; it's simply an opinionated call.
You can sell your UHR if u want; but u won't be able to convince the rest of us with your biased view.
Modern or not alot of collectors seem to misunderstand this coin and how they tried to make it look exactly as it does now with the high relief and very very deep fields, over a hundred years ago which means. It took us over a hundred yrs to finally get this coin right.
Other factors being this coin has amazing history from the artistic design and that one of Americas greatest sculptors perosnaly designed this coin by personal,special request of Teddy Roosevelt. This coin was Teddys personal mission as President for this coin to be minted. Wanting America to have some of the most beautiful coins that could be possibly minted. This coin is all in a league of it's own and any real serious coin collector. Would want this coin in there collection.. This is a true gem and my personal all time faveorite coin. I am fortunate enough to own 3 of these and one luckily being a 70 but not a FS :(.
115k won't be squat in 20 years from now when the mint is still coming out with lame designs. this coin is a once in a lifetime opertunity to own and I don't think I'll ever sell mine..
Spiff
The UHR will always go for more than sell price or bullion price which ever is higher. Its a:
1. classic coin,
2. one of a kind,
3. nice presentation, and
4. unlikely mint will ever do anything like this again.
How much premium will be time will tell. I think always at least 20% more than bullion which is back on the rise and maybe a lot more in years to come.
Sorry, but the UHR coin at 115,000 is a LOT for a gold coin... and it will NEVER command any more of a premium over spot gold than it does right now.
Look back at the 20th Anniversary set...only 250,000 Silver Eagle Reverse Proofs...they once sold for $350 and up and now can be had for under $200.
The early UHR 70's sold for $3000 and now only $2000.
New issues from the Mint usally sell at their peak in the first few months and the UHR is no different
But if you want a "rare" gold coin go buy the Gold Eagle Reverse Proof...only 10,000 minted AND it looks much better than the 27mm UHR
The UHR:
1.Classic coin
2.One of a kind
3.Nice presentation
4.Mint will never do anything like this again
The Reverse gold eagle is kinda lame even at a mintage of 10k considering most other countries have done this before we have.. How many other countries have made anything come close to the UHR? with a relief so high and the feilds so deep...I'm sure other countries could make something like this but they won't.. Not even China with all there knockoffs. Plus you won't get those scam artists from private mints who try to sucker newbs to buy there clad replicas..
People shouldn't knock the 27ML..
The Mint wanted the thickest softest metal to strike the highest relief possible. You wouldn't get that kinda relief on a 34.. Unless it was a two ounce coin, and with that much gold it's almost unrelaistic for the practicle idea of circulation.. I'ts almost a mircale the old design was even minted and circulated considering Aygustas was practially on his deathbed with cancer when he completed the plasters for the coin to be minted. No one today would of had the gonads to be able to work through the pain and suffering Augusus went through when designing this coin. And for today. It being minted in his purist original form is even more of a miracle.. These coins almost shouldn't of ever existed.. Even as an ameture collector of only 7 years I know my history with this design since it is easily my favorite coin. Those of you who have any doubts about the UHR should do there homework and maybe learn a little something about the hobby and the coin, and the hard work and sacarfice it took to make it a reality...
Spiff
Well fast foward today, May 21, 2010 spot gold: $1172,00, down about $75.00 from a few days ago. Yesterday I sold two of my UHR's for $1600.00 each ( $428,00 above current spot)and I still have five left. I've been watching Apmex sell their UHr's for $1725,00 with NO PROBLEM so I guess all of us that bought the 115,000 Ultra High Reliefs have done OK........
It is November 2010. These coins are selling/closing on ebay for $2,000. Spot is $1308 tonight. That looks like a premium to me. Who cares about mintage the buyers want them. Those wise old owls (grandpa) at the beginning of this blog were right.
First of all, I cannot believe how some of you get all bent out of shape over this coin. I'll tell you what, making $400 + profit in 5 months is not a bad rate of return at all. Me, I own one and will always own it. It is my intent to pass this coin down to my son and hopefully he will do the same. Every time I pull this coin out of my safe, I feel privileged to be on of 115,000 to own it. And the man who calls himself Grandpa, you are about a rude old man. Get a life.
this Joker that started this is wishing he owned one now! the average price on ebay is 2600.00 for an ungraded one..this is a great investment I bought 3 out of the gate and a graded one for 1950.00 ms70 pcgs if you want it; it will be 3000.00 and if you want an ungraded one it will be 2650.00
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