Mint News Blog

News, Information, and Commentary on US Mint Products

Friday, March 12, 2010

Deconstructing 2008-W Gold Buffalo Coins

The 2008-W Proof and Uncircualted Gold Buffalo Coins have been one of the most successful US Mint products in years, when considering the secondary market price appreciation. The coins have been a frequent topic of comments and I have been meaning to write about them for some time. I decided that I would come up with a deconstruction of some of the factors leading to the phenomenal success of the coins.

Before examining these factors, I wanted to start with a review of some of the sales prices for 2008-W Gold Buffalo coins from recently completed eBay auctions. A 4 coin proof set graded PR70DCAM First Strike recently sold for an incredible $16,999.00. Some 4 coin proof sets graded NGC PF 70 Ultra Cameo have sold for around $8,000 - $9,000, and some of the 4 coin uncirculated sets grading NGC MS 70 have sold for $6,000 - $7,000 per set. These sales prices compare to original US Mint prices of $1,959.95 for the uncirculated set and $2,219.95 for the proof set.

Individual coins and raw coins have also sold for dizzying amounts. A 2008-W $5 Gold Buffalo graded PCGS MS70 just closed at $875.00 and a raw 2008-W Proof $10 Gold Buffalo sold for $1,500. Here are all of the current eBay auctions for 2008-W Gold Buffalo Coins.

Personally, I have been somewhat in awe of the prices for these coins and have no idea whether prices have peaked or whether they have more room to grow. As mentioned, what I wanted to do with this post is examine some of the factors which contributed to the enormous success of the coins.

First, the design for the American Gold Buffalo is based on James Earle Fraser's extremely popular Buffalo Nickel design. Coins which feature classic designs tend to create higher demand, as it expands the number of collectors interested in the coins. When the US Mint first introduced the Gold Buffalo in 2006, the one ounce proof version sold 246,267 coins, demonstrating the potentially large collector base.

Second, seven out of the eight 2008-W Gold Buffalo coins currently represent one-time only issues. In January 2008, the US Mint announced that they would offer collectible proof and uncirculated Gold Buffalo coins in one ounce, one-half ounce, one-quarter ounce, and one-tenth ounce sizes. For the prior two years, the US Mint had offered only the one ounce version for collectors. In November 2008, the US Mint abruptly announced the discontinuation of all of the newly introduced Gold Buffalo options. This made all four of the 2008-W Uncirculated Gold Buffalo Coins and the 2008-W Proof Gold Buffalo one-half ounce, one-quarter ounce, and one-tenth ounce coins one year only issues.

Third, the pricing and economic conditions surrounding the US Mint's offering period for the coins resulted in extremely low sales, which translated to unusually low mintages. The US Mint released the 2008-W Proof and Uncirculated Gold Buffalo Coins on July 22, 2008. This was the exact day when gold reached a temporary peak of $961.50 per ounce. Gold subsequently entered a period of extended decline that would bring the price as low as $712 per ounce. The US Mint did not adjust coin prices until November, resulting in high premiums above gold value for nearly the entire offering period. These high premiums likely turned off some potential buyers. The state of the economy may have also held some potential buyers at bay, as the second half of 2008 was a period of extreme economic and financial uncertainty.

Fourth, the coins sold out before the close of the year. In rapid succession, the US Mint announced the discontinuation of most of the collectible Gold Buffalo products and then adjusted prices based on the lower value of gold. At that point, sales assumed a rapid pace which did not diminish until all options were sold out in early December 2008. In general, products which are deemed to sell out early, tend command instant premiums which sometimes expand over time. By contrast, products which linger in the US Mint's product catalog or go off sale at a pre-announced cut off date, tend to appreciate slower or not at all. (There are some exceptions to this, but it has seemed to play out this way in recent years.)

Fifth and final, collector money has to go somewhere. The United States Mint canceled many of their most popular collectible precious metals products last year and offered relatively little to fill the void. I think that at least a portion of the money that would have been spent on 2009 Proof and Uncirculated Gold and Silver Eagles is chasing prior year precious metals products, such as the 2008-W Gold Buffalo coins.

I think that the incredible price appreciation of these coins is the result of perfect storm of circumstances that likely will not be repeated for some time. We can certainly watch for some of these factors in future offerings and try to catch the next blockbuster early.

Labels:

58 Comments:

At March 12, 2010 at 10:54 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

$600-700 going rate for a 1/10 oz. 2008-W Proof Buffalo, when you can buy a one ounce 2009-W Proof Buffalo for around $1400 on the Mint website?

I would suggest that anyone who missed the 2008's should get the one-ounce 2009-W Proof instead, while it's still available from the Mint

 
At March 12, 2010 at 11:41 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The buffalo coins are .9999 fine which more collectors want.

It has the most popular design.

The mintages of the 2008 w coins are tiny compared to the proof buffalo 2009 ounce sales or bullion buffalo sales.

The mint will not make anymore fractional sizes so nobody is selling.

Overseas buyers are also interested in collecting them.

The coins are stunning in appearance.

Prices are still low when compared to uncirculated classic Indian Head gold.

 
At March 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well I totally guessed wrong when it came down to buffalo v gold w unc eagles in 2008. My money went to collecting the 08 4-coin unc w gold eagle sets with only 2800 minted. I own one of every 1400 sets made. More rare than the buffaloes, although the secondary market does not respect the lower mintage. Maybe one day this sleeper set will wake up!!!!

 
At March 12, 2010 at 2:08 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

T0 11:41....please don't compare a Moderm day coin that was NEVER meant for circulation with an old Indian Head that was...and if it escaped circuation and is still in Mint condition today...well that is something.

There is a big difference!!

 
At March 12, 2010 at 2:10 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder if the buffalos were more widely distributed and not cornered by flippers. They seem to be in strong hands right now. That might be why the prices have steadily climbed. This series is an unqualified winner all the way. I just don't see prices coming back down, ever.

 
At March 12, 2010 at 2:19 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

These are the coins that your grandkids are going to ask, "you had the chance to buy these at Mint issue price and you only bought a couple? Grandpa, what were you thinking?"

 
At March 12, 2010 at 2:23 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The gold buffaloes are one of my favorite all-time coins, and I am not surprised that they appreciated. I am very surprised at the amount of their appreciation. I bought a few over a year ago and thought I was overpaying at the time, but I wanted to have a few for 2008. The next time I looked, they had almost doubled in price on eBay.

I've been watching them more closely this year than I did last year. The price actually seems to be picking up steam a bit over the last couple of months. It seems that news may have got out to many who were unaware of what was happening to the price last year, and now everyone wants to own one (or more).

Another thing I've noticed is that there appears to be less and less available for sale on eBay. I guess more people are beginning to hold onto them for their incredible appreciation. Around the end of last year, I seem to recall there being 125-150 up for sale at any given time. A couple of days ago, it was down to 95 at one point. The new average lately seems to be slightly over 100. The prices will continue to climb if these number continue to drop.

Finally, it seems that bold sellers on eBay are putting Buffs out there for sale with incredible price jumps that I wouldn't think anyone to pay; yet many people are paying...another factor driving the price up. Over the past month, a $5 Unc Buff NGC MS70 seemed to jump overnight from roughly $500 to nearly $800.

Can't explain it...just glad I was able to pick up a few. Thanks to Michael's blog, I picked up a 08-08-08 Prosperity set before they sold out. I only which my retirement funds would perform as well.

 
At March 12, 2010 at 3:47 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like all the buffalo coins from the nickels to the gold ones. They are a classic coin design. I just wish I had a lot of money to buy one bag full of each type. Its hard to believe the '08's could go up much more but who knows for sure. I wish the mint would make a silver fractional buffalo series maybe a half oz or proof set of all fractionals like Mexico does with the silver Libertad. It would be another winner but that is unlikely to happen. The mint is impoverished in classic designs and appears it is trying to move away from all clasic designs on precious metal to simple design stuff on brass.

 
At March 12, 2010 at 5:04 PM , Blogger Byron said...

These are the ONE's to Have- LOWWW mintages- and Beauty-
In dec 08 right before the closeout I was buying 1/2's like candy
@600-650 then to 720 and a few sets, then they ramped up- sadly had to sell a few in 9/09
but I'm reloading now with a vengence- Gold will most likely see 2K/oz in the not too distant future, wanna guess what the buff's will see for then?- I especially like the 1/4's and have been buying mostly 1st strikes and early releases- heck one couple was selling 1/2 oz uncs for 1400- i tried to buy them all- ran outta cash just when they stopped selling- the Unc 1/4's are the bee's knee's-

cya and thanks for the update

 
At March 12, 2010 at 5:40 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I also must give thanks to Michael and his blog for recommending the 8-8-08 set. I got one of these at the tail end of their availability, and I am thankful I read his post about them.

Just before that, I got several 2008-W 1/10 AGEs and a 1/4 AGE. Again, blogs like this one that keep up with the mintages helped me choose which types to get. Thank you!

 
At March 12, 2010 at 7:53 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This post hits all the contributing factors for the 08 buffaloes. I can't imagine this happening again to any coin. The closest thing now might be the liberty spouse series some of which have low mintages combined with the classic obverse but they are not well known among the public and the reverse messes up the classic obvers. The buffalo coin design is not only classic but possibly the most widely known classic design and unbelieveably unique to America combined with its previous circulation as a known coin to everyone over age 50. The buffalo nickel set the stage. Imagine something like a 1958 Corvette being reproduced today with all the upgraded mechanicals. This is the buffalo nickel now in gold. Not likely to happen again but we can all hope.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 12:51 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why not make more mint mark on Gold Buffalos? Like "P" Phildelphia, "D" Denver, and "S" San Franscisco? If so there will be more people collecting U.S. Gold Buffalo Coins!

 
At March 13, 2010 at 2:46 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe someone can help me. One of the well known coin hustlers on tv who is currently selling slabbed 2009 1oz MS70 gold buffalos for $2399 keeps saying there were only 16,000 total mintage of all 2009 1oz gold bullion buffalos (1/3 the mintage of the 2009 proof buffalos). According to the numismatic news website there were 200,000 of these coins minted. I know he is a hustler but I don't think he is a liar. I can't figure out what I am missing.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 6:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are missing nothing...the guy is a hustler. Here is a link to the 2009 Buffalo mintages:

http://goldbuffaloguide.com/mintages/

Only a fool would pay $2399 for an 2009 MS70 gold buff (at today's gold prices). I seem to recall reading somewhere that the 2009 proof gold buff had a mintage of around 40-50K. The guy is just trying to play off of the success of the 2008 W gold buffs...and sadly a lot of people will fall for it.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 6:24 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a quick quote on the mintages of the 2009 Proof Buff:

Sales of the 2009 Proof Gold Buffalo were brisk with nearly 20,000 sold through the opening weekend. As of January 24, 2010, the US Mint recorded sales of 44,889 coins.

Here's the link:

http://goldbuffaloguide.com/2009-proof-gold-buffalo/

So no, the 2009 Proof or Bullion Gold Buffalo coin will never be near the value of the 2008 for the reasons Michael mentioned in his article.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 7:42 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To anonymous at 11:47am, I think your '08-W unc. Gold eagle sets are tremendous sleepers. Well, they are not really sleepers anymore now that they are fetching more than double the last mint price, but anyway at 2,851 sets it's far lower than any 4-coin gold set the mint has ever offered. Even then that low number is already undoubtedly being reduced dramtically as each coin in those sets is broken out and sold individually. Each coin in that set(w/ the 1/2 oz. excepted) is a key coin. Though the 1/2 is not a key it is fetching key-like prices, $1500 for several months now. Bottom line an intact pristine set w/ all boxes and papers will be very hard to come by in many years.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 7:49 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I put off my purchase decision until December 2008 by which time the 4 piece Proof set had already sold out. I was on a business trip and visited the US Mint in Philadelphia on Dec. 27, 2008. The only coin available for purchase in this series was the 2008 Uncirculated Buffalo 'Celebration Coin' so I was really compelled to buy it.

Some might lament this 'business strike' but it came with the 'special' box. Frankly, I just wanted a sample 1 oz. Buffalo from each year of issue, proof or not. For some reason, there was no "Celebration Coin' in 2009. Maybe the Mint is no longer celebrating the collapse of the US economy.

I have the 2006, 2007 and 2009 1 oz. Gold Buffalos in Proof. It would have been nice to have the 2008, too. But I'm not so anal about collecting that I would spend significantly more than the original offering price from the US Mint, or current bullion value for a 2008 Proof version. These prices may be had from the more desperate sellers who crop up from time to time. Shop locally, and you'll come across them.

Who knows, all of my other proof gold Buffalos could secretly be MS-70 First Strikes ... but I'll never put them in a slab, and 'trust' the high and holy graders at PCGS and NGC to certify and grade what already has considerable eye appeal to any educated collector, even if it is just another US Mint product - in proof, no less.

As for those hucksters on TV hawking slabbed 2009 proofs, note that the mintage numbers they quote are the amount (population) of slabbed proof coins. You must always be aware of this fact - Population Reports from PCGS, NGC and other 'objective' graders and slabbers are based solely upon the number of coins that they have handled, not US Mint production figures. So, in addition to the illusory, and potentially fraudulent grading that has been proven to occur from time to time, you have the added price-booster of artificial scarcity promoted by the grading firms, who use the population report as if it was an official US Mint statistic. Caveat emptor! I wish the Federal Trade Commission would go after these outfits. They are a scam from day one.

Having your coins 'graded' by these so-called 'objective' outfits is an unwise decision. If you simply hang on to your original mint packaging, as some folks will insist upon having it, your gold buffalos will do just fine on their own.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 8:57 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just seeing since this blog has been put up, Ebay activity has gone up on these coins. If you look at the winning bidders on the coins, a lot of the people have comments below a 100 on Ebay. That tells me that their is a lot of new buyers and interested collectors in the market and you add that to the collectors that are already in the market. Also, currently from what I have seen a lot of other gold coins are not doing so well and since their has been so much talk about the buffalos, everyone is jumping in the action. Therefore I see prices going much higher. The only sleeper coins that I see are the 2008 AGE. Anything 2008 I think well do very well in the future. Lastly, if we see a jump in gold prices towards $1300 - $1500 range, which a lot of folks are predicting, god knows what will happen to these coins. These buffalos are becoming the Google of the coin collectors market.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 8:58 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the poster at 3:47 who likes all Buffalos:

"I like all the buffalo coins from the nickels to the gold ones. They are a classic coin design. I just wish I had a lot of money to buy one bag full of each type."

Absolutely agree that any US coin displaying the Buffalo / Bison image conjures up "America" to me.

Just wonder if you recall that in 2005, the Mint produced nickels (I haven't seen more than 5-10 in circulation change in over 5 years). They minted both P & D coins, and offered them for sale in bags of 500 and 1,000 coins. In addition, that year they also minted a limited quantity, by anyone's standards, of P & D Satin finish nickels for inclusion in the annual 2005 Uncirculated Mint sets. You want a 100% complete set, you need these.

I have always loved the Buffalo / Bison coins and bought several bags of each mint in both quantities. They remain in the brown / strapped shipping cartons they were mailed and are destined for my inheritance pile to be enjoyed by my 2 children. Any classic design is a desirable piece in my view and should be part of every collectors portfolio. Even modern junk has some desirablity if you choose wisely. The Mint has been hawking Presidential spouse medals and for those Presidents who served without a wife, the Mint chose to substitute a "medal" that displays a former classic coin image such as a Draped Bust, Capped bust, and Liberty seated. They are certainly more attractive than the female images of the other spouse offerings. I've purchased 20 each of the 3 that thus far have fallen into that catagory. Just my way of collecting, but I'm pleased with the outcome so far. Several of the recent State 25c displayed Buffalo's/Bison designs. Same thing, bought a bag or two of each mint as usual. Choose carefully and enjoy the hunt. ~ Grandpa

 
At March 13, 2010 at 9:17 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the poster at March 13, 2010 7:49 AM:

While I agree with the spirit of your post regarding coin grading companies, there is a practical aspect that is missing. While coin grading is subjective, purchasing a coin that is described on eBay as "perfect" is even more so. Those of us that were unable to purchase directly at the mint are either at the mercy of an individual's opinion or a company's opinion. The person has no accountability (other than getting a single negative feedback rating); the company has a reputation and shareholders to consider.

I would much rather have a coin I thought was "perfect" directly from the mint than anything else. However, that is impossible sometimes I have have to pick up the coin after it has already gone off sale.

Neither the individual nor a company is perfect, but I will pay a little more for a more unbiased opinion that is inherent in a professionally graded coin. The individual trying to sell on eBay just wants the highest purchase price they can get.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 9:20 AM , Anonymous Falcon said...

I have to agree with the above comment. The outfits that prey upon people through thier off truths and out right lies should face a federal charge. Misguiding the public about mintage amounts, satin finishes and all the other scams have to stop.
I understand that a company should make a profit but not by thier tactics. When a company makes a 10% profit it means that it adds on one tenth of the price not multiply the price by ten.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 9:26 AM , Anonymous Falcon said...

I mean to the 7:49am comments

 
At March 13, 2010 at 9:34 AM , Anonymous CG said...

Thanks for the responses to my original post at 2:46am earlier this morning. I have replayed the video of the presentation of the $2399 2009 MS70 ANACS $50 Gold Buffalo Coin that I originally saw advertised live earlier this morning on the coin collector show on hsn. The two guys (Mike & Alan) are clearly stating that "the US government made on 16,000 of these coins". And they say it over and over and over again. Mike even says once "it was a one day release". This is clearly their main selling point of the coin.
My only reason for dwelling on this is that although I would never buy any coins from this show obviously many people do (I've often wondered who). And as I stated above this is clearly the main selling point of the coin.
Although it seems quite clear what they are saying I still keep thinking maybe I'm missing something. I know they are hustlers and they try to package (either through grading services or their own creative packaging) and hype things to get the most money out of people but their claim of "only 16,000 made" is clearly blatantly untrue and if so I think they should somehow be held accountable.
I'll give the link to the page that has the short video of the coin presentation from earlier this morning for anyone who might be interested. I'm obviously not trying to promote any of their coins and I'm sure everyone on this blog is smart enough not to buy anything from them. But since they are probably one of the largest sellers of coins in the country I think they should be held accountable for what they say. And if I am somehow wrong in my own interpretation of what they are saying someone please let me know.
Here's the link to the short video (about 5 min.) and make sure to turn up the volume: http://www.hsn.com/collectibles/2009-ms70-anacs-50-gold-buffalo-coin_p-5845955_xp.aspx?webm_id=0&web_id=5845955&sf=co&dept=co0007&attr=3490&ocm=CO|co0007|3490&prev=hp!sf!3490&ccm=CO|co0007|3490

 
At March 13, 2010 at 9:44 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

When you report the hucksters claim 16,000 were made, they may be "honest". They hide behind the fact perhaps that 16,000 were "made(available or TV packaged)" for the TV offering. Their attorney has to couch their pitch so that it remains just inside the fraud line. These clowns prey upon the notion most people DO NOT LISTERN TO EXACTLY what they are saying and insert what they want to believe they said.

But I too never would buy from them, or their other corporation - Chattanooga Coin Co. Someone linked both outfits as being either one and the same, or sister-outfits.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 9:52 AM , Anonymous CG said...

Just to clarify my earlier post I meant the quote in the first paragraph was "the US government made ONLY 16,000 of these coins".

 
At March 13, 2010 at 1:02 PM , Anonymous Falcon said...

What can thier lawyers say about thier announcing that the US Mint will not produce anymore satin coins after 2009?
I went over this point several times on other blogs written here and everyone can see that was a lie according to the US Mint. I can not wait to see the first satin coins made by the mint this year so I can hear what they have to say about that. Of course they might just go and say they meant after the 2010's.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 2:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

mint schedule updated.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 2:57 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Last year I spent my investment money buying a PCGS MS65 Pre-1933 $10 Indian ($6245), and the other on 2 sets of 2008 gold buffalo Proof, 1 in PCGS PF69 and the other in raw condition within USMint's designed 4 coin box [both for $6961].

I was going to sell them all to realize a little profit, with the gains from buffalo offseting $10 Indian, which has performed miserably..But that may not such a good idea after reading this post and all the comments...esp regarding the buff.

Any opinions appreciated.

 
At March 13, 2010 at 3:19 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The MS 70 $5 I think is a great buy right now. Based on the mintages and affordability factor these will probably rise the best percentage wise.
Everyday inventory goes up on these coins and then you see people just buying them up. AMAZING!

 
At March 13, 2010 at 3:24 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thought people mind find this useful:

http://goldbuffaloguide.com/mintages/

 
At March 13, 2010 at 5:10 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I watched the video on HSN and I am at a loss. They are talking about the bullion issue 2009 and it is not a First Day of Issue slab.

To say the least, I am shocked, SHOCKED, that you can't believe everything you hear on HSN!

 
At March 13, 2010 at 5:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all those with '08 buffaloes I say hang on to them unless you need the money. If you got one of the four coin sets from the mint you are blessed. Before you sell your set you should consider selling one of your children (just kidding).

 
At March 13, 2010 at 7:21 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

They are pulling the 16,000 figure off of this page-

http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/buffalo24k/index.cfm?action=MintageTotals&year=2009

If you notice the mint sold 16,000 ounce coins in December. What they aren't doing is adding in the other months to get to 200,000.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 1:45 AM , Anonymous CG said...

Thanks for the info about the 16,000 sales figure for the '09 buffalos. That clearly explains were they got the 16,000 number from. And they are clearly using this number to misrepresent and misinform the public that this is the TOTAL sales figure for all '09 bullion buffalos so they can sell their overpriced coins to the less informed and less knowledgeable public.

Too bad these guys can get away with this misinformation on national television. How can they continue to stay in business or expect to have any respect from other dealers and more knowledgeable coin collectors.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 9:22 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

As I mentioned in a previous post, the average number of 2008 W Gold Buffs for sale on eBay is continuously dropping. I just checked, and their are currently 98 related products for sale (including capsules and boxes only). This bodes well for higher prices at least in the short-term. With the present demand, I would expect the prices to at least increase 25% from current prices if the number of products for sale on eBay drops to a average of 75. It may take several months to get there though.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 9:58 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brace your delf for another jump in gold price by the end of the year. My prediction is based on notion that comfortable inflation level may be raised to 4% a year ( currently it is about 2%) by most central banks . Also there will be an average 1 trillion yearly budget deficit predicted for at least the next 10 years ( they cannot predict beyound that ).

 
At March 14, 2010 at 11:55 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bought some buffalos in the past due to Michaels blog and invested some more dollars this week after this blog. I have never been let down by this site and I am very confident that we are going to see higher prices to come with these coins.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 2:54 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't make any predictions on prices of these coins. I won't sell my 08w buffalos but I won't buy either at present price levels. I will just watch...

 
At March 14, 2010 at 2:56 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think there will be any significant drop in prices in the near future, so I watch for opportunities to buy.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 2:59 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

While the pf50 may be little bit overpriced now, the unc50, pf25 and unc25 are undervalued.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 3:18 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

About six months ago I bought two 08 MS70 buff tenth ouncers ($5) for $375 each and I remember thinking that I must be going nuts and that it was a risky buy.

Now I would gladly pay $375 without a single second thought for this same buffalo.

Long term I think any of the W (burnished) AGE (especially fractionals) are going to do well.

And I think ANY US minted precious metal W or proof fractional with the year 2008 stamped on it will do well over the long haul.

I bought ten 2008 AGE proof tenth ouncers and ten 2008 AGE W (burnished) tenth ouncers... enough to fill up a NGC twenty slot case... and all are 70's.
At the time I was assembling these I was paying about $180 each.

And I grabbed up as many tenth ounce W platinums as I could... so I think I might have three or four... all NGC 70.

what a banner year 2008 turned out to bee. and I came in (started collecting) right toward the end of 08.

I read Michael's blogs religiously and learned a lot... and have never once been steered seriously wrong.

The other coin I think will do well--- though it's mintages are so much higher--- is the
09 gold UHR's. I am still adding to my UHR stack. Focusing on 70's. And having one 70PL in the stack.

A stay away for me--- though I've been tempted and if I ever find a 15% off bing I might move on one--- but I am not so HOT on the 09 Platinum proof one ouncer even though it has a mintage of only 8000 pieces.

happy collecting folks.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 3:27 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is very interesting to me is that the 2008-w buff proofs going for, in most cases, a premium over the UNC versions. What is interesting is that the uncirculated 2008 w buffs have lower mintages than the proofs. One would think that the uncirculated buffs would sell for more. Personally, I like the unc buffs better than the proofs, the proofs are to frosty in my opinion.

As the 2008w buffs start leaving allot of collectors budgets there is another coin series that have low mintages and large collecting bases that still can be purchased at reasonable prices. Specifically the 2006 and 2007 Unc AGE. I think they could the next "sleepers".

Lastly, is it just my perception or do others think that there is just nothing from the US Mint that I am excited about collecting. First Spouse "Boring". I guess I was just used to all of the cool offerings from the Mint from 2006-2008.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 3:42 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon 3:27pm wrote:

:::Specifically the 2006 and 2007 Unc AGE. I think they could the next "sleepers".:::

Do you mean the W unc (burnished) or are you including the pure bullion fractionals btwn 06 and 08?

I think the W's btwn 06-08 are a bit under the radar right now... especially the 06 and 07 what with 08 getting all of the collector's attention right now.


:::I guess I was just used to all of the cool offerings from the Mint from 2006-2008.:::

we may never see a three year ripe span of offerings that the mint offered from 06 through 08.

I think even over time--- but to a moreso limited extent---even the silver W eagles from 06 through 08 are going to do reasonably well. Right now if I buy silver eagles (which I have not been actively pursuing) it would be the W's and in the highest grade.

great years... happy I got into collecting when I did. It's really been a lot of fun. though a bit unnerving when the credit card bills become due and payable :=)

 
At March 14, 2010 at 4:49 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The 2006-2007 W uncirculated "burnished" AGE's are the coins I was referring to in my original post. The 2006 and 2007's, "Burny's" as I call them, have low mintages as compared to AGE collector proofs the past 20 years. I started buying them from the mint in late 07 on Michael's recommendation. I purchased 3 of the 4 coin sets. Kicked myself for not purchasing an 08 set when they were selling for $1850 at the end of 08. Picked one up later on the secondary market for considerably more.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed the difference in the burnished finishes between the 06-07 and 08 Unc AGE's. The 06-07's are shinier than the 08's. The 08's are very flat. Very different when compared side by side.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 5:55 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The AGE's are nice coins and should do well over the years especially the lower mintages. But for a classic coin once again the mint messed up the obverse. Now its nice symbolism but there is something about a little bird hatching out of shell on the back of a gold coin that just doesn't seem right. This will help keep the price always below the '08 buffs. I have a few burnished with the little bird coming out of the shell but I really just don't care for the obverse design in spite of its symbolism. Maybe a large price appreciation down the road will adjust my attitude and help me like the little bird in the shell more.

 
At March 14, 2010 at 8:03 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

All the talk at the coin show was about the Buffalos even the old timers were talking about them. One thing that I have noticed on Ebay is that their are very few people who sell these coins. Some flippers here and there but a lot of people are hanging on these coins.
I do agree with the posts above that the AGE $5 is a great coin to get into due to its low cost comparable to all the other 08 coins.

 
At March 15, 2010 at 8:55 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

MINT UPDATE!!!!!

The maximum mintage for the Abigail Fillmore First Spouse Gold Coin is 15,000 across all product options. Customer demand will determine the ratio of proof coins to uncirculated coins produced within the total maximum mintage.

Sold out in first day??????

 
At March 15, 2010 at 9:05 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

MINT UPDATE!!!!

There is NO household order LIMIT in effect for either the gold coin or the bronze medaL.

Without limits dealers will play this one for sure.

 
At March 15, 2010 at 9:34 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

As far as the gold W ms Eagles go, from the little I've seen the '07W's would appear to have a richer more lucent frosty finish than any of the others. I think the '07 1/2 ounce ms is the real sleeper of all of them. Great coin and they seem to be the hardest of all of the fractionals to find.

 
At March 15, 2010 at 2:39 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wish their was a way we can see other sales of these coins other than Ebay. I can't find a dealer that will sell me anything at a reasonable cost for any of these coins.

 
At March 15, 2010 at 3:48 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I feel bad for people buying a 4 coin first strike set for $15000. I think you will see these things tank when the big guys leave this market. Every show I go to, I see a bunch of these hard to find coins for sale. Just be careful out there. If the consensus is that something can only go up, it will head down in short order. Justmy thoughts, flame away.

 
At March 15, 2010 at 5:07 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can possibly see some of the sets cooling off just due to the price and the amount of people that can afford them but the fractionals have ways to go. March is usually the worst month for gold and if we can hang on to these levels then May and onwards should be bring much higher prices hence the Buffalos should do very well.
Also I see the fractional UNCs are slowly catching up to the proofs, which totally makes sense. The mintage for the $5 UNC and proof is almost the same but the Proof sells for twice as more. The 1 oz UNC in my eyes is the king of the hill.

 
At March 15, 2010 at 7:27 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uncirculated buff w will never beat the proof. The reason is obvious : the proof is a part of a series while the w uc is not!!
Open your eyes!

 
At March 15, 2010 at 9:08 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you are telling me that you would rather own the proof 1 oz vs the unc 1 oz. Well I will bet my 1 oz unc buff to your 1 oz proof! I own both but the 1 oz unc will do much better a year from now.

 
At March 16, 2010 at 1:30 PM , Blogger GoOgLyMoOgLy said...

"I feel bad for people buying a 4 coin first strike set for $15000. I think you will see these things tank when the big guys leave this market. Every show I go to, I see a bunch of these hard to find coins for sale. Just be careful out there. If the consensus is that something can only go up, it will head down in short order. Justmy thoughts, flame away.

March 15, 2010 3:48 PM"

I'd love for you to let me know where you can find 08-W Buffs commonplace :^_^: I'd gladly take them out of those people's hands come end of this year.

 
At March 16, 2010 at 3:37 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The value of gold coins will take a hit when the Fed tightens interest rates... Self hypnosis is a curious thing, it creates bubbles. Follow the money crowd and "lighten your gold load a little" while the buyers are still interested.

Goldbug

 
At March 16, 2010 at 6:38 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

what factors? they took it off the market, that's all you need to say.

 
At March 16, 2010 at 8:05 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hate when peopel speak out of their a$s and say when interest rates go up.....Buddy have been reading that the Fed has pretty much come out like never before and said WE ARE NOT RAISING RATES ANYTIME SOON!!!! Bill Gross even aaid that as well. Their is no question that we are in the mist of a bubble but far from fully inflating it. When you go to a cocktail party and everyone is talking about how much gold they bought then its time to sell. We are probably in the 5th or 6th inning and the 8th and 9th inning is when the money is really made.
I hate to put all my eggs in one basket but I am buying buffalos like crazy and I will be glad to buy any from someone who wants to give me a good deal! It has paid off so far.

 

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