2009 Proof and Uncirculated Gold and Silver Eagles Canceled
Today at Noon, the United States Mint issued a press release with some shocking and disappointing news. The collectible 2009 Proof and Uncirculated Gold and Silver Eagles will not be offered this year. As partial consolation, the press release also announced plans to offer the 2009 Proof Gold Buffalo, the 2009 Proof Platinum Eagle, and fractional weight Gold Eagle bullion coins.
Additional Coverage on this announcement:As it now stands, the following collector coins are now canceled:
2009 Platinum Eagle and 2009 Gold Buffalo
2009 Gold Eagle and 2009 Silver Eagle
Final Thoughts on US Mint Product Cancellations
- 2009 Proof Silver EagleThis is in addition to many other collector gold and platinum coins that had previously been announced as discontinued.
- 2009-W Uncirculated Silver Eagle
- 2009 Annual Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set
- 2009 Proof $50 Gold Eagle (one ounce)
- 2009 Proof $25 Gold Eagle (one-half ounce)
- 2009 Proof $10 Gold Eagle (one-quarter ounce)
- 2009 Proof $5 Gold Eagle (one-tenth ounce)
- 2009 Proof Gold Eagle 4 Coin Set
On the bullion front, the US Mint has canceled all 2009 American Platinum Eagle bullion coins. These coins are typically available in one ounce, one-half ounce, one-quarter ounce, and one-tenth ounce sizes.
The following collector coins will be offered:
- 2009 Proof $50 Gold Buffalo (release date October 29)The reason cited for the canceled products is a familiar one: "the unprecedented demand for American Eagle Gold and Silver Bullion Coins." This reason has been cited on numerous occasions over the past two years to explain bullion coin rationing, bullion and collector coin suspensions, and bullion and collector coin cancellations.
- 2009 Proof $100 Platinum Eagle (release date December 3)
Under law, the United States Mint is required to produce Gold and Silver Eagle bullion coins in quantities sufficient to meet public demand. Accordingly, the US Mint has been using all 22-karat gold and silver blanks to produce bullion coins, in lieu of collector coins, which they are not legally required to produce.
The status of this year's collectible Gold Eagles, Platinum Eagles, Silver Eagles, and Gold Buffaloes has been a topic of constant discussion and speculation. Way back in January, I had mentioned the possibility that these coins might not be issued in 2009. My reasoning was validated a few months later when the US Mint finally announced that the products were suspended (see posts here and here). In mid-June, there was a brief revival of hope for the collector coins when the US Mint finally ended bullion allocation programs, but apparently this was to no avail.
This is clearly an unhappy resolution to the situation for collectors. I will have further thoughts on this situation in the coming days.
Labels: Gold Buffalo, Gold Eagles, Platinum Eagles, Silver Eagles
posted by Mint News Blog @ 10:19 AM
148 Comments:
What constitutes "Public Demand"
You would think the US Government would be flexible in the interpretation of the law !!
; )
Lets restamp the Braille Coins,
: )
What a disappointment. I'm surprised they're still going to offer us the Proof Buffalo coins. Probably not for very long, though. Be prepared for some serious Mint website lag on October 29th (provided that tentative release date doesn't change.)
Of course, with the way the price of gold has been behaving the past couple of days, those Buffaloes could cost us some SERIOUS money. If the price doesn't retreat soon, we'll be in new territory for gold coin prices, possibly reaching the tier where one ounce coins will cost $1,439!
I would normally write something intelligent, but all I can come up with is "THIS SUCKS!"
If you bullion hoarding nutjobs hadn't been hoarding bullion, we would be able to get these Eagles.
"If you bullion hoarding nutjobs hadn't been hoarding bullion, we would be able to get these Eagles."
Huh? That is the best example of circular reasoning I have ever heard. Congratulations!
We probably have very little gold to offer the public because we are busy using it to pay our international obligations and the dollar is now officially a joke.
The gold buffalo will sell out, so get'em while you can. I am embarrassed for the US Mint. They are pathetic!
anyone think the 2009 buffalo coin might have a smaller mintage then the 2008? or will the mint screw us over again and mint enough to make them worth only spot price...
The press release also idicates fractional 09 gold eagles will go on sale Dec. 3. Does anyone know if the mint is allowed to sell '09 bullion products into 2010? This would be unprecedented I believe. The mint has always had current-year bullion silver and gold available early January.
Here's my thought for what it's worth. Perhaps the Mint feels that the UHR gold eagle is an adequate substitute for the gold AE. I could ALMOST live with that explanation. However, not offering the SAEs is inexcusable!
At least we got the Braille coin and all those stupid US territory quarters. It's a banner year for the Mint.
I bet that the 2009 Buffalo Gold Proof coin will have a mintage of only about 10,000 or so, a first-day sellout. I just can't see the Mint producing the coin to demand, as demand is bound to be sky-high!
There had better be a limit of 1-per-household!
This is a disappointment! They could at least make small amount, like the 1995 with the W mint mark, after all the number represents a fraction of the typical Proof Silver Eagle mintage and makes this a very special and highly desirable coin. This is viewed as the centerpiece to a complete collection of Silver Eagles. The 1995 W coin had a mintage of only 30125. So how hard can this be? Thier must be something else behine this! I was looking forward to the 2009 Proof! BOO HOO on the mint!! :-(
Anyone know the mintages for the 1 0z for 20, 07 and o8 proofs?
Sorry meant 06.
I believe that elimination of the 2009 uncirculated dollar set means that the only place you will be able to get the 2009 Native American $1 satin coin is from the 2009 United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set.
It also appears the Mint has updated the remaining 2009 Product schedule with firm dates (rather than just "Fall" or "Winter")
I am disappointed that there will be no 2009 Proof or Unc "W" Silver Eagles. I do not intend to re-allocate the money I had set aside for these coins into the new gold offerings.
Typical. The one nice looking coin the mint produces (the silver eagle) is canceled. OH but of course they don't cancel any dead president coins. Oh no! Never! It would be a crime! Ugh. The US Mint disgusts me. They can take their clown tokens with dead frauds on the back of them and shove it.
It figures the only precious metal coins that haven't been canceled are the unaffordable ones that the average collector cannot buy. Of course!
The entire US Mint staff, including Ed Moy are a laughing stock. I wish there was somehow we could just totally clean house with the US Mint.
I'm going to go after the fractional AGE's - you never know how long they'll mint them or even if they come back in 2010.
Too bad about the rest...
You might want to consider allocating some money into buying a 2009 Proof Buffalo coin. Those will be secondary market monsters, seeing as how they will be the ONLY one-ounce gold proof coins of any type with a 2009 date!
I am also really disappointed. I had just started to collect coins this year, just after the Lincolns sold out. I had a backorder that was canceled so I missed out on those. I was looking forward to getting these directly from the Mint ASE's at cost vs the markup on ebay and such for the older one's.
This also wrecks my plan for getting the birth year for my last kid. too bad he was born in 2009. "THE YEAR OF THE SUCK"
Hopefully I can get my hands on a few Chronicles for my 3 kids.
Here's a link to the Numismatic News article on the announcement:
http://numismaticnews.net/article/Eagles_No_Buffaloes_Yes/
Those with a lawyer’s eye will spot the exception in the language here: “All available 22-karat gold and silver bullion blanks are being allocated to the American Eagle gold and American Eagle silver bullion coins programs as mandated by Public Law 99-185 and Public Law 99-61, respectively.”
The one-ounce Buffalo gold bullion coins and collector coins are struck on 24-karat gold planchets.
Apmex is pre-selling the 2009 one-ounce gold buffalo bullion coin for $1111. Is that one worth getting? It looks like the coins worth considering are:
2009-W gold buffalo proof: 1 oz
2009 gold buffalo bullion unc: 1 oz
2009-W platinum proof: 1 oz
2009 gold eagle bullion unc: 0.5 oz, 0.25 oz, 0.10 oz
I don't understand it. The '09 1OZ Silver Eagles are not going to be minted because of lack of stock yet they are going to be offering 5OZ Silver National Parks Coins. Are they saving some of the silver for those coins or are they going to stop the '10 Silver Eagles also?
Here, here! I totally agree with the clown token dead frauds posting. That's great! Who wants those worthless base metals coins anyways representing a bunch of oligarchs that having been screwing the People since day one? (Well I would take a GOLD or SILVER Jefferson or Jackson any day - but to hell with the rest, including that tyrant Lincoln!)
I am highly disappointed about there being no W-SAE's. Hopefully the ones I collected for 06-08 will appreciate well?
Anyways, I think this is appropriate:
"You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
no Moy Eagles
Me sad
2008-w burnished eagles are going to start to pick up with this news. The 2008 proofs took off month ago - so not sure how much higher thsy can go.
Off Topic (a bit): While on the subject of the Burnished Eagles I have a question for anyone knowledgeable in the grading of same. I have bought several 08's in the sets and each one (on magnification) appears to have micro dots of burnish show-through in the flat areas. Not nicks mind you but minute dots just where you can see it sparkle. How does this count against the grading?
Jim L.
"The '09 1OZ Silver Eagles are not going to be minted because of lack of stock yet they are going to be offering 5OZ Silver National Parks Coins."
The Mint is allowed by law to make collector SAEs, but not mandated. They ARE mandated by law to make and allocate the creation of bullion AE relative to demand. They are mandated by law to make the 5OZ coins next year.
So, while the Mint does have its problems... these particular problems aren't theirs. Its Congress. They are the ones that mandate what the Mint can or can not do. If you want collector SAEs, get on the horn with your Congressman!
thats a good idea.
One would think this would greatly increase the demand for the 2009 Silver Lincoln and Braille dollars. Do you guys think the 2009 Platinum will have a higher demand in future years due to not many 2009 products?
Do you think the mint will re-start the silver American Eagles in 2010 or come up with something new in its place? Seems silly to have a year gap in a series of coins. Just wondering.........
For 2010, they would just try to resume American Eagles. From the release:
"The United States Mint is working diligently with current and potential blank suppliers to increase the supply of bullion coin blanks, so it can offer to the public the proof and uncirculated versions of American Eagle silver, gold, and platinum coins in 2010. "
I wonder what the Mint would do if this were 2011 ~ would there not be a 25th Anniversary Silver and/or Gold Eagle set? That would be a shame...although this year is too!
Well, having collected every Unc & Pr Silver Eagle since their inception, but never any "regular-common" yearly bullion Eagles, I know what I must do to preserve the on-going yearly series. Simple, buy a quantity of good quality regular bullion pieces matching the yearly quantity of Pr's & Unc's in my collection. I will include articles and a copy of the Mint's announcement so that, one day, my heirs will open that steel box and find a "complete" date collection with every date Silver Eagles were minted (in any finish). It will be obvious that it was the Mint who broke the collector series offering, not that I failed to obtain the 2009 date.
I am VERY disappointed with the Mint on many levels....and unfortunate as it may be, as I have said numerous times, the Mint has become the laughing stock and consumate failure of all major Mint's around the globe. Other countries have every right to snicker at the US Mint. The US has become a joke once again, I am so ashamed of the leaders. Truly. - Grandpa.
Buy all the prescious metal collectable coins you can this year. Whats next; using brass presidential dollar batting cage token blanks for proof American Eagles next year or making a clad proof AE?
The mint director should reconsider production of 2009 Proof Silver and Gold American Eagle Coins. The decision to suspend production of 2009 Proof Silver and Gold American Eagle Coins is a huge disappointment to collectors who have purchased these coins without interruption for 23 years. Many collectors have been waiting all year for the dates that these coins would be available. The repercussions of this decision will also have a negative impact on sales of 2010 Proof Silver and Gold American Eagle Coins and the sales of these coins in future years. This decision is a terrible slap-in-the-face for a large portion the U.S. mint’s collector base that has faithfully supported the long-standing American Eagle Proof Bullion Coin program.
The U.S. Mint's core collector base deserves the opportunity to purchase 2009 Proof Silver and Gold American Eagle Coins and the mint should do whatever it takes to produce these coins.
Does anyone know or have any experience if the Mint prioritise sales in U.S. as opposed to Worldwide sales especially for the products under 1/hsehold or having very limited mintages?
Thanks.
This is a slap-in-the-face for the U.S. mint's hard-core collector base. Collectors have faithfully purchased the Proof American Eagle silver and gold coins for 23 years. This really, really, really SUCKS.
Maybe they will make fake 2009 silver eagles in China?
Just speculating that if the Mint hears all the "noise" about the discontinued 2009 ASE/AGE they may go ahead and recant, then reverse their decision.
The mint has got be to KIDDING. 1986 to 2008 and it ends now!
Leave it to a negative add to bring out all the pessimists.This is great new for so many 2008 coins.Why complain when the coins you bought in 08 are going to go up in price because of this.LOOK FOR THE GOOD IN THIS PEOPLE.41 comments inside of 5 hours.That is also some kind of record isn't it? I think I'm beginning to like old Mr Moy.So quit your crying and be glad that your not unemployed and unable to buy coins at all.Or perhaps all the people whining are the ones who are gouging people in the after market.Hmmmmmmm
if the mint cant get enough precious metal to make these coins in 2009... hasn't it now become very possible that they won't make these in 2010 and likely 2011... or that they may cease production forever?!?!?!
This is horrible. They have 100,000 gold blanks for the UHR, but no gold eagles? They have 20,000,000 silver blanks for bullion, but they cant put out 500,000 for proofs?!
Mark my words: 2008 will be the final year of production, ever, for the gold and silver american eagles. If it ain't happening this year, it ain't gonna happen next year, or the year after, and at that point... ever again.
Hoarding is now a fact.Do the 1920s finally ring a bell here.CRASH BOOM BANG !!!!!!Down for the count.I figure why give the US Mint those high premiums anyway when I can get gold bars more pure and cheaper.DUHHHHHH! Wow it's amazing how the US Mint has hypnotized so many idiots these days.
Could this mean there is actually lead in the middle of the UHR OMG!!!!
It already looks like a OREO.I think I'll cut mine in half just to see.Do you think that will hurt it's value?It could go from a first strike to a half round.Hmmmmmm do you think maybe a half round on a PCGS label would make it sell better.They haven't tried that one yet.
I think it's high time for us bloggers to take over management of the US Mint and get things back on track (aka-common sense).
Unbelievable how the US Mint is trying to justify not minting proof silver and gold eagles.
They may as well toss apple pie out the window while they're at it.
I heard that the Mint was ordered some time ago by the white house to convert all their gold and silver blanks into Olympic medals to be used at the 2016 Olympics in Chicago. In lieu of bronze metals, they were going to use national parks quarters since they expected to have a surplus.
This is horrible !!! They have 100,000 old blanks for the UHR, but no gold eagles? They have 20,000,000 silver blanks for bullion, but they cant put out 500,000 for proofs?!
WHAT A SHAME ON THE US MINT!!!
Holy crap batman.The joker has taken over the US Mint.That's ok boy blunder.It's a good thing we hoarded the 2008s.
Maybe if Obama gets his health "care" overhaul passed quickly, we can petition him exert a bit of pressure on Congress to dump Moy, his cronies, ill-advisors, and order the Mint to at least go back to their former embarrassing operations and start producing what people want. I say fire Moy for non-performance of duty. Disgusted.
Hey batman? Are you having dejavu.No boy blunder.That is vujada.
Are these out cries or just a bunch of whiners who see their abilities to rip off the public in the aftermarket get halted in their tracks.Hip Hip Hurry for Mr Moy for putting those scum bag scalpers in their place.I can see the CEO of PCGS,NGC and the like crying because they won't get a piece of the eagle pie this year.
This is bigger then anyone can imagine.Scalpers will now have to earn an honest living.OMG I think unemployment will hit 11% over this one.
I wonder if Coin World will have the (nerve) to splash a scathing front page headline and editorial about this travesty and insult to American collectors. If they pick up the gauntlet, perhaps enough Governmental leaders will take note of this crisis. The Mint has changed direction, decisions, and schedules continually lately. The only thing that will save the powers-that-be is to once again reverse ANOTHER bad plan - decision. Someone has to wake up these do-nothing clowns. Will Coin World do the right thing and step up to the plate for this injustice?
If they fire Moy.He might become the CEO of PCGS.Then what will the authorized scalper dealers do?
That's a great idea.And let Wexler and Crawford lobby the congress with their formative DDRs.And in the end let ANACS attribute the whole deal.
BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! the mint sucks. wish these were elected officials so we could vote them out. do the right thing and just step down!!!!!!!!!
We wonder whether Chattanooga Coin Co. will jump on this with another cleverly worded advertisement to promote average 2009 bullion Eagles that have been specially polished & whizzed to fill that "missing hole" in everyones Eagle collection. Perhaps they will even be offered with a new and exciting "special" last-of series label! Wow, that will really run the price to new heights. Can't wait to see it.
Lets just face it.This proves that coin collecting isn't a hobby any more.It is a way for scumbags to cheat honest people.Coin collecting will never be the same as it was back when I was a young man learning from my grandfather.Thank you MR Moy for stopping these scumbags.I'll keep my double eagle collection and laugh at all you whiny babies.
OR...it could be that there will be no more ASE minted in the future because they would make a good substitute currency for the common folk when the dollar goes belly up. They want the people to be stuck without a viable alternative to the dollar like the ASE. Look at the Liberty dollar FBI fiasco. WHEN the dollar becomes worthless, people will revert to silver and gold. Problem is, you can't manipulate the value of bullion by just printing more. Additionally, you actually have to COLLECT taxes from people to fund the pork barrels and bridges to nowhere instead of just printing more money. Imagine the conversation going something like this:
Elected Oaf: "UGH, Congress no like!
Congress addicted to free access to all money it wants. What Congress do now? If Congress have to go get money from people, people no like Congress. People no like us, they no vote for us! This BAD! THIS EMERGENCY!"
FedRes thug: Wait a minute, wait a minute, What if... we just stop making the most affordable silver! (the ones most likely to be available to most people and could be used for trade instead of dollars if things get worse) AND...we'll just keep minting the larger (less affordable and impractical for trading) type of bullion! That way, no one will catch on until we shut off supply of those too! Call Moy and tell him to make up some story for the public for immediate release."
Stop posts on Michaels Blog may be off the cuff anger.....but it clearly demonstrates how American collector's passions can inflame in a moments notice. Just wait another day or two as the news reaches those currently unaware. I think you will see a ground swell that will make the Samoan tsunami look like a ripple in a water glass. People are FED UP WITH BULLCRAP. Believe it.
Grading company back room meeting going something like this.
Authorized dealers:
"Hey, you guys promised us you would grade everything a 70".
Grading companies:
"Hey Moy,you promised us you would supply us with the ASEs"
Moy:
"That was before I was told that our economy really does suck"
Average Joe:
"I'm glad all of you are getting screwed just like you screwed me"
Moral of the story:
"What comes around goes around"
Perhaps Jim Sinclair is correct...
Hyper-inflation has always been a currency event, not an economic event. The currency event has always been, for whatever reason it occurred, a loss of confidence phenomenon. Clearly confidence in the US dollar and its management is slipping. Historically when this currency event comes about the transition is extremely fast.
We have been doing a countdown to the beginning of the end, or that process acceleration. The are 33 days to go.
Gold is then off to $1224, $1650 and then on to Alf’s numbers.
Have you prepared yourself for the implication of such a gold price?
Respectfully yours,
Jim
Look on the bright side...........................................................................................nevermind.
nevermind
Maybe they can get Hershey's to make chocolate silver eagles.
it's not only the scalpers who get screwed. like grandpa, there are some of us trying to put together the set. i have gotten a proof SAE each year since starting my coin collection as a way to document how long i've collected. the collector are up a creek.
I actually have an old Hersheys coin mold of the morgans.
Would that help?
I'm wondering if people cried this much when the IHP changed to the Lincoln.I wonder if heads rolled on that deal.
71 comments strong.Keep going boys.Cry your eyeballs out
Unacceptable!
Damage to collectors and the Mint itself.
To cap it all off:
Oy Vey!
I
don't
like the
US Mint
"I believe that elimination of the 2009 uncirculated dollar set means that the only place you will be able to get the 2009 Native American $1 satin coin is from the 2009 United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set."
75 comments, WOW DUDE! I cannot afford Gold or Silver. But the 2009 United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set is within this dudes purchasing power...
I just started collecting about a month ago... carefully tracked down the '06, '07, and '08 W burnished proofs, and the '07 and '08 uncirculated dollar sets with the W silver eagles, and now they're being discontinued?!? I'm totally bummed out. Could they at least make the uncirculated dollar sets with the bullion silver eagles? I'd buy those. The rotating coin holders are a great achievement in mint packaging--I could straighten them all out. Can't imagine how bummed everyone else must feel.
OMG the world is actually coming to an end.People can't fill their holes now.What will they do now?
WAHHHHHHHHHHH!!! WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!
I guess in a couple years the mint will only be making world unity coins like the gold ones they handed out at this years G8 to world leaders. Except the ones for public distribution will be made of recycled aluminum and have a nice satin finish.
Take the money and feed your unemployed neighbor with it and feel good about yourself for a change.
Look on the brightside everyone... we still have the first spouse series to look forward to. lol
Those of us who have faithfully collected silver Eagles since 1986 direct from the Mint don't feel bummed out, we feel insulted, dissed, inconsequential, and slapped in the face. We supported their program over the years, and made the collector offerings as success. While all things can come to an end eventually, the vagueness of whether customers are given a choice to continue a series or count on completion of collectable sets should be made at the beginning or end of a year. To leave customers with expectations of continuance thru the month of October, then abruptly cease production is tantamount to being vile and insulting. You don't spit in your customers face, then later bemoan when they retract from future purchases which will cause the program to fail. The Mint will regret the callousness of their illadvised actions. This latest blunder may very well be the last nail in the coffin for many. It's not about ebay selling or grading company profiteering, it's about your average small scale collector...the little guy.
The silver eagles got short changed for the new 3 ounce silver national parks coins that come out in 2010.
"Look on the brightside everyone... we still have the first spouse series to look forward to. lol"
Of course lol
Can't leave out dead presidents and the dead spouses of our dead presidents!
YES! According to Michael's January 6, 2009 post, if precious metals prices remain the same, I will only have to pay $1,310 for a 2009 1oz Gold Buffalo Proof coin and $1,592 for a 2009 1oz Platinum Eagle Proof coin. Both for $2,902 - CHEAP!
Give me pure gold and platinum bars any day over the quality you get today.At least I know it's pure and not filled.If the mint lies about production.What makes you think they aren't adding a little more fill in the mix.for 2902.00 I can get more weight then you will have in the junk they are selling today.Even the UHR which was supposed to be perfect had disappointed many buyers.
I speculate that the US Mint will replace all eagles with buffalos.
WHO'S ENCHARGED HERE? • No “W” mintmarked uncirculated silver American Eagle collector coins,
• No proof fractional gold American Eagles,
• No “W” uncirculated one-ounce gold American Eagles (the fractionals of this were killed at the end of last year),
• No Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set, which would include a “W” silver American Eagle!
The entire US Mint staff, including Ed Moy are a laughing stock. I wish there was somehow we could just totally clean house with the US Mint.
WHAT THE COLLECTOR!!
OK so many have vented disappointment, outrage, and other negative comments here on Michaels blog. That is fine, at least Michael Z. has been more than gracious to allow our comments. However, while we know of this blog, perhaps there are hundreds or thousands of collectors, investors, buyers, sellers, what have you who don't know this blog site.
Perhaps it would be a better idea to vent or comment on our frustrations by mailing or emailing a short note to Coin World and other numismatic publications. Letters to the editor if in print will serve to go one record that Mint patrons are fed up with their shennanigans and failed policies. Coin paper reader audience is much larger and getting the word out may be more beneficial than grumbling here. JMO.
I just want to be the hundredth blogger LOL
This
too
shall
Pass
There
DID IT!!!!!!!
Sorry Micheal
The problem is the mint had ample time to get enough blanks secured to at least have a small run of silver proof eagles, there is n o excuse for this.
Wow Those Ms70 ASEs are already climbing in price.I remember back in April hearing that this would happen.Why is everyone so surprised it actually did happen.Maybe it is all of the people who didn't prepare for this.I for one think that this is great news.The prices everywhere are going to sky rocket.And I for one built up for it to happen.I think that the Braille and Lincoln had a large roll in this.The fact that more proofs have to be made for the up coming Lincoln five coin set on the 15th is a testament of where the Mint is putting their money.I mean after all.It does make more since to through a high premium on a little bit of copper and one once of silver.I'm just surprised that they limited them to one per house hold.That too will change if the orders are not large enough just like the UHR.They will eventually go to five sets I think.And blow that low mintage count out too.If people are really so mad at the mint and want to protest this latest news.Don't order the Lincoln Coin and Chronicle set.At the very least.Don't order the new Braille coming out.That in it's self would send a big message to the mint.But I know everyone on the 15th will be at their desk tops typing away trying to get that first strike.LOL So stop crying and go with the flow and don't get your panties in a wad over this one.Just do what they did to you.Screw them on the 15th.I remember seeing someone say that the 15th will be a national call in to work sick day to order the coin and chronicle.I say lets call it a national screw the mint day.The question is.Are you really pissed off enough to do that.I guess we will see in 8 days.
I JUST WANTED TO SAY:
"THE US MINT IS DOING A GREAT JOB!!!"
Next year the mint will be selling 5 once silver state parks and sites coins, yet they can`t produce any one once silver this year? I don`t get it. The price of the 5 once coins may be out of the reach for some. Why not just ditch the 5 once coins and bring back the 1 once eagles?
Apparently, Moy is not posting on Michael's blog. Only an idiot like him would be making some of the posts I've read. This is a collector's forum (if I'm not mistaken); however, a couple idiots (I suspect only one) think this forum is about dealers, etc. Of course real collectors are going to be disappointed when the Mint generates gold coins with the images of the President's dog, fifth cousin twice removed, hemorrhoid, etc., but can't seem to stay in the spirit of what the Mint is supposed to do. This is a big deal killing off the ASE and AGE's this year.
Those that are whining about some of us who are disappointed with the Mint's direction either work for the Mint (or some other inefficient government entity) or are unemployed with nothing better to do. I don't know which is more embarrassing.
Rephrase...Moy IS posting on Michael's forum.
I nominate Mr Moy for president of the United States Of America in 2012.Anyone who can piss this me people off in a matter of hours deserves the oval office.
This is an incredibly poor business descision. In a normal year (or even a not so normal year like 2008) the mint profits more from, the small sales to collectors than it does from all of the bullion sales. Last year, the net margin on bullion sales was under 2%. For numismatic productsm it was over 17%, a ratio of almost 9:1 in favor of numismatic products. As a stockholder in this corporation, I am appalled at the operation of management. They have clearly set up their compenstaion structure to reward gross sales over profit. Just like the rest of corperate America, they will reward themselves for losing money because of the amount of business they managed to do at a loss. Nowhere does the law say that the numismatic versions of these coins do not count toward the goal of meeting public demand and nowhere does the law say that dealer orders reflect the demand of the public. As a numismatic collector, one of the group that provides the vast majority of the profit for the mint, I rightfully feel betrayed.
If twenty one people walked up to you at the same time and one offered to buy $100 worth of coins from you for $102 and the other twenty each offered to buy $5 worth of coins for $10, which would service first?
If you call this a normal year.You obviously are lost in the clouds.And if your still putting your money in stocks.You obviously are in for a bigger surprise when your money turns to NOTHING.Buy Gold !!!!! Furthermore,If your buying coins for 100.00 or 5 or 10 dollars.Your obviously not buying gold.Get your money out of the stock market and buy gold with it before it is to late.
Does anyone (Micheal) have the profit figures for the Us Mint in 2008 and so far this year in 2009.I'm assuming that since 2008 was a very low mintage year.Bad economy being a large role.That the US Mint (Mr Moy) wasn't quite ready for the high demand that all the Lincoln coins created.Couple that in with the rising cost of silver and gold.And there you have it.Shortage
It is interesting that the Mint stated that they did not have blanks earlier in the year; then a few months ago they magically had blanks. I believe that was when the decision was made to eliminate the AGEs and ASEs. They just couldn't bring themselves to admit it to the world. It's either that or they are completely (without comparison) the most incompetent of all government entities (including the Executive Branch if that's possible).
The irony is that based on the Mint's current method of doing business, they will eventually place the image of one of our many incompetent leaders on a gold coin to celebrate them. I might agree with them if they put the images of our current leaders on the US's first tin coin set.
Update: Due to the continued, sustained demand for American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins, 2009-dated American Eagle Silver Proof Coins will not be produced.
Does this mean that bulk buyers foreign and domestic are mostly to blame for this travesty.So if I have a business license and a coin shop for 5 years.I can screw the average American collector by buying up all the silver and gold.Someone is behind this latest move who has a lot of money.Could it be the Chinese or other parts of the world buying up all of our silver and gold to create a further decaying dollar.
The Us Mint allows foreign and domestic bulk sales at a 5% discount.I think this will be what kills our ability to produce for the collector and reduce wide spread hoarding by average Joes.This in my opinion is just another way to show that the average Joe has no ability to hoard any longer.That Sucks !!!!.Somehow,I knew they would come up with something to screw the average collector.
In response to the post from 10/07/09, 6:03 AM, asking about the US Mint and profit, take a look at the article that had posted on Numismatic News sometime last night, http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=7939.
While the article is interesting, your answer can be found at the very bottom as a clarification to a previous article: "The U.S. Mint says its average profit is 19.7 percent on collectible coins and 1.7 percent on bullion issues."
Keep the math simple with an average profit of 20%. Costs + 20%Costs = Selling Price. By solving for Costs, you find that Cost represents 5/6 of the Selling Price. What does that mean? When the UHR was selling for $1200, $200 was pure profit.
Granted, Mint prices for UHR's are higher now, but you get the idea. $200 / coin for 100,000 coins; $20M profit on the UHR alone. Apply similar logic to 500,000 Lincoln Silver Dollars at $36 / a coin; $3M in profit. And this is just two the collector coins in the catalog.
While the profit margins on bullion coins are lower, the Mint over comes the disparity with sheer volumes. Check the Mint stats for latest bullion production numbers, keeping in mind that Gold is for the year and Silver is for the MONTH.
Bottom line - The Mint is covering their costs and then some at our expense. Siding with the majority, if the Mint intends to continue making these kinds of profits, make the concerted effort to meet the needs of the customer while doing it.
What a shame.
Of course, the real issue is not 'unprecedented public demand', it is the continuing death spiral of the US Dollar. The First Spouse gold coins, and the Ultra High Relief coin, as well as any number of higher markup commemorative issues will continue to be produced.
Meanwhile the US Mint's core products such as American Eagle and Buffalo series will be allowed to fall by the wayside. This illustrates very poor decision making at the Mint.
Simultaneously, bullion suppliers realize that the dollar is so worthless that they will not supply precious metals to 'meet public demand' to the US Mint at any price, as there are other global purchasers with economies that have appreciating currencies because they actually produce real goods and services formerly produced in the USA.
It would be nice to have a Congressional investigation of Mint management, but we all know that it would cost a fortune, and accomplish absolutely nothing.
Biggest bunch of crap I have ever heard. Sometimes I want to overthrow our STUPID government. You would think that someone in the mint would have some common sense!
WASHINGTON - The United States Mint is seeking applicants for appointment to the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (CCAC). There are two open positions-one who is specially qualified in American history and one who is specially qualified in medallic arts or sculpture. The application deadline is November 13, 2009. The United States Mint will review all applications and forward recommendations to the Secretary of the Treasury for consideration and appointment.
shouldn't it read something more like this:
the United States Mint is seeking applicants for anyone who knows how to satisfy the public demand.The position filled will advise on what the collecting community really wants.Not what the collective bulk rate buyers are demanding.Applicant should also have knowledge of availabilities of bullion blanks to satisfy the demand for the people who makes us the most profit.The average collector.
According to the Mint's 2008 annual report, The net profit from numismatic sales was $59.9 million (this does not count numismatic sales of circulating coins, which added another $22.5 million) and their profit from bullion sales (a record year for silver sales and s good year for gold) was $17.8 million. The mint does not make up for the low bullion margin on volume. Numismatic sales far outweigh bullion sales in terms of net profit, yet we get the shaft as customers. The same will be true this year, numismatic sales will far outprofit bullion sales but the bullion buyers continue to get the red carpet treatment. Maybe the difference is that we don't have jobs waiting for the managers at the mint after they leave public "service".
How does the mint reconcile its claim that the law prevented it from producing this year's silver Eagles with the fact that in previous years it has shipped coins early in the year, long before bullion orders ceased. My personal history of ship dates of proof SAEs:
2005: Mar 17
2006: Feb 06
2007: Mar 29
2008: Jan 06
UNC SAEs:
2007: Mar 25
2008: Jun 18
So, last year they produced and shipped the proof SAEs right along side the bullion but somehow this year the law that has been in place for over 20 years prevented them from doing the same thing. In a word: BULLS__T!
The lack of SAEs this year majorly sucks! But its inline with the Mint's raison d'etre.
While the Mint is required not to operate at a loss, there is no requirement to make a profit. It IS REQUIRED (it is its primary mission) to make coinage in response to economic conditions as directed by the Treasurer and the Federal Reserve so as to allow the country to appropriately conduct trade and continue to establish its commerce. Bullion coins are part of that coinage making process and it is used, as all coinage is used, to represent monetary value in the economy. THAT is the Mint's job. Everything else is gravy.
It cares about numismatic sales only to the extent that it does not interfere with its primary mission. So, in that sense, collectors are NOT its core interest and thus the Mint WILL screw us over regularly. It is now, and has done so in the past.
It would be nice, though, to have Congress and/or a Mint director who was more responsive to the needs and wants of our cadre of prols. We need more allegorical coin designs, and less devotional ones. We love the SAE because it is and always has been a throwback to the yesteryear allegorical designs that invoked a sense of the ideals that represent this country rather than the current trend of representing the imperfect people that have tried, with all good intentions, to implement, however imperfectly, those ideals.
While it is sad that the Mint has decided not to make SAE's and GAE's, I don't see how that relates to "overthrowing" our government. Everyone should email Mr Moy and contact their Senators and Congressman. Pressure could force the Mint to produce a smaller amount of SAE's and GAE's this year.
Really, really bad decision. Skipping a year in a long-running series while putting out other junk. Might just lose some buyers in future years.
"Really, really bad decision. Skipping a year in a long-running series while putting out other junk. Might just lose some buyers in future years."
Since when has anyone at any level of government ever cared about losing customers. That's exactly why they shouldn't get their mites on our healthcare system. Multiply the Mint's "customer service" this year by 10,000 and that's what your healthcare will be!
I agree with Anonymous at 9:40 AM. The proof and burnished versions could have easily been squeezed in earlier in the year. And as one person noted earlier, these are techically "bullion" coins that we (the public) demand.
Personally, I think that the burnished version should have been a one year deal in '06, and should have been available only in the 3-coin set. The continued production of these simply diluted the uniqueness (for the collectors out there) and value (for those who use coins as an investment). I am glad to see it go, and hope that it doen't return.
The proof, on the other hand has been a staple since day one. I hope that the mint gets over its case of cranial-rectumosis, and finds a few hundred thousand blanks to produce these.
Refering back to the clad comment, at this point I would be happy with a clad proof, or even a 40 percent proof instead of getting nothing. In fact, I would like to see all of the current dollar designs replaced by a clad version of the Eagle.
I can see everyone is pissed... 125 comments in less than 24 hrs; The Mint realli outdid itself this time... Well done Moy!!
Yes, 125 comments on this blog alone, imagine the thousands of angry collectors who read bad news in silence and never make their displeasure vocal. In the private sector, bad calls and failed marketing actions would result in that person(s) being called on the carpet and the appropriate top management hauling a$$. You don't antagonize and allienate your customers via imbecillic actions. If there is a roadblock, the smart group will complete the mission with a workaround solution, You don't throw up your hands, and turn your back on the public. Moy and his lackluster planning group can still pull this out of the fire....simply reverse the stoppage, issue a limited just before Christmas offering, and save their faces. They certainly have had lot's of practice reversing announcements this year, why not one more? As Yogi would say: "It ain't over 'till it's over".
For series continuity (if nothing else), the Mint should strike 1,000 Proof Gold Eagles and 20,000 Proof Silver Eagles dated 2009. That way, the coins WILL exist so at least SOME collectors can keep the complete set going. Granted, both coins would be new series "keys" and would command a small fortune on the secondary market, but at least they would EXIST for those who could afford them. I know that such a small mintage would serve to make some collectors mad because the coins would be so scarce, but that is still better than a hole in EVERYONE'S collection, isn't it?
I honestly don't believe that such a small number of proof coins would interfere with the Mint's ability to meet public demand for the bullion versions. They obviously just don't really care about what the collectors want, do they?
unbeliveable i have been waiting all year and now the cancel sae. That really, really, sucks. I'm very disapointed. I was hoping to give some to my kids for christmas. They make nice stocking stuffers.
The US MINT really needs to have people that know how to run a business and provide customer service.
They have blanks to mint a bunch of coins that nobody cares about; but none, not even a small number for the proof Eagles...
WHAT A SHAME !!!!!
Kind of makes me want to start collecting stamps again...
I guess the boys are just flexing their muscles... Maybe it's time to have a woman run the mint...
Goldilocks
why sell gold for worthless paper! The government will start selling again when gold stops rising. When the government sells gold and silver, where does it come from? Is it our tax dollars? Does the Government make a profit?
My fellow angry collectors:
Please call Carolyn Fields at the mint's press office (202) 354-7222 and make your voice heard. Sure it's going to cost you a phone call, but it's worth a shot at getting this decision changed. Carolyn wouldn't give me ANYBODY's Email address, but I'd gladly pay $50 for Ed Moy's phone number or email address.
OMG peoule are becoming so desperate they are asking for clad eagles.why not make them with aluminum and put Moy's mug on it.Has anyone written Daniel Carr about this.Maybe he can throw some out on the market for us.He can call it the Amero eagle.Least then we will have something to put in the hole for this year.
Indeed, there are a lot of well off collectors and investors of coins and bullion items to whom the stopping of a long collected series such at the ASE's mean little. They deal in many items of interest.
On the other hand, there are probably many who find the addition of one or two each year just within their budget and do the best they can. It's this group who feel betrayed by the very agency to whom they depended to provide the items for collection. It's always the little people who get screwed by Government agencies isn't it. That's just not right.
This is very sad. The proof Silver Eagle is my favorite mint product. But look at all the other flavor of the month coins available for sale I don't want to buy. Pathetic.
Ed.Moy@usmint.treas.gov
Courtesy of Coin World
This is Outrageous... I can not believe it. Having collected Gold and Silver Eagles for 10 years, it is the end of the series?
Outrageous! Outrageous!! Outrageous!!!
United States Mint
Office of Public Affairs 801 9th Street,
NW Washington, DC 20220-0001
Curtis Ohl
October 7, 2009
Dear U.S. Mint,
In my cascading grief I will forever remember the odious decision of the U.S. Mint to not produce the 2009 American Eagle Silver uncirculated and proof coins. Of the three types of 2009 American Eagle Silver coins, the uncirculated, proof and bullion, only the bullion coin has been produced but not sold to the public by the U.S. Mint.
Since 1986 I along with many coin collectors have been collecting these beautiful silver coins. Now I am only left with a round silver dollar hole in both my soul and in my coin collection albums. Thanks U.S. Mint for not caring about the coin collector.
I understand the mandated Public Law 99-185 and Public Law 99-61. Both of these laws direct the mint to produce these bullion coins in quantities sufficient to meet public demand.
Okay please follow the law and begin to immediately sell the Silver American Eagle bullion coins directly to the public. The only way now for the public to buy these silver coins is to go through private parties at greatly inflated prices. So how is the public demand served in buying these coins from a retailer? Part of the problem is that by producing these coins as silver bullion, it artificially raises the silver price. Let the dealers sell silver bars and let the U.S. Mint sell its own products to the public. I see no law that would prohibit this selling, only a policy change from the U.S. Mint. Change your policy since we cannot have our 2009 coins!
You are the Mint, make these silver bullion Silver American Eagle coins available on your web site!
I further understand that the law does not mandate the proof and uncirculated versions of the American Eagle Silver Proof Coins to be produced.
So we are left languishing in 2009 with 6 silver territory quarters and a Braille silver coin and no collectable American Eagle Silver coins? I have a suggestion, why not melt down all those territory quarters and Braille coins left over and make American Eagle Silver coins?
I do not want to continue to subscribe to the U.S.Mint for purchase of the 2010 American Silver Eagle coins, if the Mint even makes them.
End the run of the American Silver Eagles. It was fun while it lasted.
On your watch the failure to produce the collectable 2009 American Silver Eagles is unforgivable.
Even in 1943 at the heighted struggle of WWII, with copper in short supply, the U.S. Mint still made pennies, steel pennies, thus there is no hole in my Penny collection.
Some people do drugs, I do coins, so for me this is my passion. Please consider your actions to the loyal coin collector. We make your department one of the very few departments that make a profit for the Government.
I look forward to your reply and to buying 2009 American Silver Eagles on your web site!
Coin Collector Curtis
2008 W Silver Eagle still avaiable on US mint website:
http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14562&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=10111
If the mint would produce their own blanks instead of depending on a outsider, we wouldn't have this problem!!!!!!!!
By Not Releasing The 2009 Proof Silver Eagle, The U.S. Mint Is Ruining Coin Collections All Over America!!!
This is crap.. Way to leave the collectors out in the cold. I have every silver eagle proof made.. Way to mess up my collection..I will not buy anymore now or in the future.
i have recieved 1 call form a coin distrubiter today ms69 ASE GOLD coin for 1700.00 dollars.. and have recieved a booklet in the mail from EAGLE NATIONL MINT (1.800.992.1878) the price they wanted was for a ms70, 2000.00 dollars and the pr70, price is 2500.00 dollars....ASE GOLD COINS are in stock i was told today by the customer service dept...how did they have the ASE GOLD coins in stock and graded by NGC when the ASE GOLD COINS are canceled...what is the truth...i dont know if i can trust/believe the mint with what i have heard after i have talked to these companeys....if they can buy them we should be able to buy them also.....i like to hear what ya have to say and i have also added the ENM company 800 number..call and hear for yourself.....i dont like being decieved/lied to if they have the ASE GOLD coins so should all have the chance of purchasing them also......whats so special about them.????????call hear it from them...(i did)
and i want the truth from the mint if they are canceled why do they have them????
The 2009 Proof Gold Eagles are canceled.
They might be selling previous years, or the 2009 Gold Eagle bullion coins.
i was talking about the buffallo coins not eagles
to all i ment the buffalo coins i didnt mean to get the coins mixed upjust they getthe coinsa month arly and they havent gone on sale tous collectores...SORRY ON THE MIX UP.I WAS TALKIN HOW THEY GOT THE BUFFALO BEFORE US SORRY FOR MY MIX UP
When I was cancelling my subscription for my proof and uncirculated Silver Eagles from the mint I had to give a reason from a checklist of why I was cancelling. It is nice to know that they have "Dissatisfied with availability of the item in the program" as a reason for cancelling. If the mint sees enough people give this reason for cancelling thier subscriptions they might wake up to the fact that they are losing money and the peoples interest.
Even is they start up with the Silver Eagles again I will not buy them. With America the Beautiful 5oz coins comming out they will have a hard time to keep the Silver Eagle program supplied with blanks.
Bottom line with Proof and Burnished silver eagles...rumor I've heard in the industry is the mint wanted to end the silver eagle program in 2006 at the 20th anniversary. Only coins exempt are the MS eagles due to Congressional law forcing them to make them. There is also talk that there is a loop hole in the law that forces the mint to only make silver bullion coins not necessarily eagles of the "walker" style so 2010 or any year there after could bring a design change because they would still be making a .999 pure bullion coin.
The Mint should offer a complementary plastic token to stick in my ASE album to fill the gapping hole that will forever annoy me.
The Mint States That Due To Continued Demand For The 2009 Proof Silver Eagles, They Will Not Be Produced? That Make Absolutely NO SENCE!!! Demand Means That People Actually Want The Coins!
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