2009 Platinum Eagles and 2009 Gold Buffalo Coins
The news yesterday that the US Mint has canceled collectible 2009 Gold and Silver Eagles certainly generated a lot of responses from the collecting public. As I mentioned in yesterday's post, I plan to provide some more details and my own thoughts on the announcements in the coming days.
Today, I wanted to write about the known details for the 2009 Platinum Eagle and 2009 Gold Buffalo coins which will be offered this year. Tomorrow I will follow with more details on the canceled Gold and Silver Eagles. By Friday, I will present some overall thoughts and reactions to the situation and how it has affected collectors. For now I will stick mostly to the facts.
2009 Proof Platinum Eagle
Last year, the US Mint offered a total of fourteen different platinum coin products. This included collectible proof 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/10 oz coins, and 4 Coin Sets; collectible uncirculated 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/10 oz coins and 4 coin sets; and a full range of bullion 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, and 1/10 oz coins.
This year, there will be only one platinum coin offered: the one ounce 2009 Proof Platinum Eagle. This coin will be offered for sale directly by the United States Mint with a tentative release date of December 3, 2009.
The 2009 Proof Platinum Eagles reverse will feature a new design interpreting the theme "To Form a More Perfect Union." The final design has not yet been announced, but design candidates were reviewed by the CFA and CCAC last year. The CFA recommended a design depicting a small tree with thirteen leaves. The CCAC recommended the design pictured at the top of this post with four faces representing the diversity of America.
Official pricing and ordering information has not yet been announced. Based on the US Mint's published pricing grid for numismatic platinum coins, the one ounce proof coin would cost $1,592 based on an average price of platinum between $1,250 to $1,349.99. It seems likely that the US Mint would place a household ordering limit on these coins (perhaps one per household) due to the demand for the coins and the small window for production.
Last year, the US Mint sold a combined total of 5,030 of the one ounce 2008 Proof Platinum Eagles.
2009 Proof and Bullion Gold Buffalo Coins
Last year, the US Mint offered thirteen different Gold Buffalo coin products. This included collectible proof 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/10 oz coins, and 4 Coin Sets; collectible uncirculated 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, 1/10 oz coins, and 4 coin sets; the American Buffalo Celebration Coin; the Double Prosperity Set; and the one ounce bullion coin.This year, there will be just two coins offered: the one ounce proof coin and the one ounce bullion coin.
The proof coins will be offered for sale directly by the United States Mint with a tentative release date of October 29, 2009. Ordering and pricing details have not yet been announced. Based on the numismatic gold coin pricing grid, the price for each coin would be $1,310 based on an average gold price of $1,000.00 to $1,049.99. As mentioned for the platinum coin, I also think anticipated high demand will cause the US Mint to impose a low household limit.
Last year the US Mint sold a total of 19,591 of the one ounce 2008 Proof Gold Buffalo Coins. This was down from 58,998 proof coins sold in 2007, and approximately 252,000 proof coins sold in 2006.
The 2009 Gold Buffalo bullion coins will not be offered directly by the United States Mint. As with other bullion coins, they will be distributed through the US Mint's network of authorized bullion dealers. These select dealers can purchase the coins directly from the US Mint for the spot price of gold plus a mark up. The coins are then resold to other bullion dealers, coin dealers, or the public.
Last year, the US Mint sold 189,500 of the one ounce 2008 Gold Buffalo Bullion coins.
Labels: Gold Buffalo, Platinum Eagles
posted by Mint News Blog @ 10:01 AM
63 Comments:
Now the question is which will be a better buy.. the Bullion Buff or Proof Buff?
Thots?
Michael:
Why do you necessarily assume a "small window" of availability for the'09 plat proof? In the past the mint has offered prior-year collector issues including PR Eagles well into the next calendar year.
It's quite simple, actually. This year is not LIKE past years. As you've no doubt seen by now, the old "rules" no longer apply.
I'm confident that Michael is absolutely right regarding a short availability period. I said the same thing myself in comments yesterday. If you want these coins, DO NOT DELAY!
The better buy will be the Proof Buffalo. Sure, it will cost more up front. But, it will be more popular with collectors and the mintage will undoubtedly be much smaller than that of the bullion version.
There will likely be a limit of one coin per household, and 10,000 or less minted. If you want it, you'd best plan to be there on release day (tentatively 10/29) to fight the masses for one.
Regarding the question on the short window:
I guess it will ultimately depend on the number of coins the US Mint manages to produce (which has now become a matter of how many precious metal blanks they can acquire)... but the increased attention generated from the cancellations combined with the limited number of different products offered should cause a "run on the Mint" when the coins go on sale.
Last year, after the US Mint announced the discontinuation of many of the fractional coins and collectible uncirculated coins, the remaining 2008 stock sold out rapidly. I believe there were only a handful of products left by the next calendar yer.
Micheal:
About the '09 fractional AGE's, do you think the mint will cut off availability of these at the end of the calendar year? I do not think the mint has ever kept minting bullion issues into the next year, I do not think the law says they can't though.
About the platinum designs..I prefer the tree. I hate to sound like a racist, but why does "diversity" have to exclude white males? Hmmm?
Well it's been over 24 hours since the mint announced their stupid decision and I'm still furious. My bet is the Platinum coins will never happen, but we'll have to wait & see.
Yeah...the platinum coin looks like another politically correct coin; sort of like the gold spouse coins as far as I'm concerned.
That said, I think that Sacajawea was a contributor (and even sacrificed) for our once-great country so no problem with her getting a coin.
If the dollar is worthless and no one has any dollars.Only the rich will be able to afford it.Then the dollar becomes worth nothing and the rich are stuck with shiny ounces that will fall right behind the dollar.Then all the rich people will wish they had bought guns instead.And learned how to hunt and grow gardens to survive.If the dollar fails.It won't matter any more.Don't you people understand that.This country is headed for pure disaster.And if Americans.Mostly the rich lazy spoon fed suckers don't realize that Americans need to reestablish the old work ethic.Like getting off your butts and doing something to create labor in the work place that isn't saturated with illegals who ultimately drop wages.And outsourcing at such an extreme rate that our countries hard workers are now barely surviving.And selling 500,000 dollar homes to people that make 20,000 a year.I'd love just for once to sit at one of these shrimp and lobster fed board meeting and tell these companies just what America used to stand for.Listen up people.The mint is and has been selling gold way over spot.And if you fall for that just to fill your little addicted holes.You might be the one holding that shiny worthless pieces of gold saying"Why dint I buy that gun.
Uh...yeah. That's pretty heavy, dude!
ya someone needs to have a beer. lol
"About the platinum designs..I prefer the tree. I hate to sound like a racist, but why does "diversity" have to exclude white males? Hmmm?"
Well, the coins that were minted in this country's over 200 year history have mostly depicted white men. Why are you complaining about this one coin? But, if you were really genuine about your concern, then you would also need to ask why a Native American male, an Asian male, a Black female, a Hispanic male, and a Hispanic female aren't also included in the design.
I am, but as a white male, I take it personally. My point is that "diversity" should include ALL, not just minorities. I would include the others, not to mention middle easterners and Indians (from India, you know), but the design would look awful (it would look more like "your huddled masses"). This is why I prefer the tree. It doesn't offend anybody accept for flowers, grass and shrubs.
Moy should make a platinum coin of himself!! He has done hell of a job at the Mint!!!
Just as a matter of information: Is Moy considered a "professional" in any capacity? If so, what capacity? Who above him in the power tree designated him as such and why? Is his appointment a political reward or favor? Shouldn't someone who holds responsibility yet is obviously clueless to the needs, requirements and basic expectations of the collecting public at large, act in a conscious manner depicting a person who is awake at the wheel? Can anyone name 3 things he has done well while (mis)Directing the Mint?
What is wrong with this individual?
While I was looking forward to the proof platinum product, I would not buy the shown diversity coin design. I would not buy it even if there were a white male and every other ethnic/gender present in the design. However, I suspect that there is no white male on the coin because "they" are the only gender and race that can be overtly discriminated against. If the Mint is tired of eagles and Liberty, how about a nice Gadsden flag design. Providing for the common defense is more important to forming a more perfect union than "diversity." Funny, but I don't seem to recall any commentary in the Preamble on the importance of diversity. Not that there is anything wrong with diversity, it is just tiring when folks with an agenda try to make the Preamble mean or say something that is simply not there. On the other hand, greater diversity has certainly helped to insure domestic tranquility.
For the "deep thinker" that somehow believes a numismatic blog is a ingenious place to rant about stupid people buying shiny gold, what makes you think we don't already have large stashes of guns, ammo, and food? Maybe we can afford to buy gold now because we bought all the guns and ammo we will ever need when they were affordable and available. Maybe that’s just one of the many reasons why we are smarter than you!
Of course the answer to Bullion Buff or Proof Buff? Get both! Then again, a Proof Buff and some Eagle fracs could be a better price appreciation play. A few things come into play: how many can afford to buy all these products in the short time that they will be available and how many will sell out without warning before people can decide what to buy. The good news is the new gold products (and higher gold spot) should slow the UHR sales. I just took delivery of my last one and I must say that the Mint is doing a fantastic job on the late production specimens.
Just looked at the MintStats over at Numismatic News... no numbers on the 2009 uncirculated set? I mean, its been a week hasn't it... they should have some set of numbers by now, right?
Found this website with an update on sale numbers for the 2009 uncirculated set:
http://www.coinnews.net/2009/10/07/2009-us-mint-set-sales-on-fire/
BTW, I thought it was only NN that got mint stats, how did these folks get it as well... and as early as they did?
LOL a pretty good rant by anonymous @ 8:21AM until "On the other hand, greater diversity has certainly helped to insure domestic tranquility"...
Can you give an example of where on earth this is true?
You have it exactly backwards.
United States Mint
Office of Public Affairs 801 9th Street,
NW Washington, DC 20220-0001
Curtis Ohl
October 7, 2009
Dear U.S. Mint,
In my cascading grief I will forever remember the odious decision of the U.S. Mint to not produce the 2009 American Eagle Silver uncirculated and proof coins. Of the three types of 2009 American Eagle Silver coins, the uncirculated, proof and bullion, only the bullion coin has been produced but not sold to the public by the U.S. Mint.
Since 1986 I along with many coin collectors have been collecting these beautiful silver coins. Now I am only left with a round silver dollar hole in both my soul and in my coin collection albums. Thanks U.S. Mint for not caring about the coin collector.
I understand the mandated Public Law 99-185 and Public Law 99-61. Both of these laws direct the mint to produce these bullion coins in quantities sufficient to meet public demand.
Okay please follow the law and begin to immediately sell the Silver American Eagle bullion coins directly to the public. The only way now for the public to buy these silver coins is to go through private parties at greatly inflated prices. So how is the public demand served in buying these coins from a retailer? Part of the problem is that by producing these coins as silver bullion, it artificially raises the silver price. Let the dealers sell silver bars and let the U.S. Mint sell its own products to the public. I see no law that would prohibit this selling, only a policy change from the U.S. Mint. Change your policy since we cannot have our 2009 coins!
You are the Mint, make these silver bullion Silver American Eagle coins available on your web site!
I further understand that the law does not mandate the proof and uncirculated versions of the American Eagle Silver Proof Coins to be produced.
So we are left languishing in 2009 with 6 silver territory quarters and a Braille silver coin and no collectable American Eagle Silver coins? I have a suggestion, why not melt down all those territory quarters and Braille coins left over and make American Eagle Silver coins?
I do not want to continue to subscribe to the U.S.Mint for purchase of the 2010 American Silver Eagle coins, if the Mint even makes them.
End the run of the American Silver Eagles. It was fun while it lasted.
On your watch the failure to produce the collectable 2009 American Silver Eagles is unforgivable.
Even in 1943 at the heighted struggle of WWII, with copper in short supply, the U.S. Mint still made pennies, steel pennies, thus there is no hole in my Penny collection.
Some people do drugs, I do coins, so for me this is my passion. Please consider your actions to the loyal coin collector. We make your department one of the very few departments that make a profit for the Government.
I look forward to your reply and to buying 2009 American Silver Eagles on your web site!
Coin Collector Curtis
Someone correct me if I am wrong. The only year that Gold Buffalo Fractionals were produced was 2008 correct? (Proof) Now this year there will be Gold Buffalo Fractional Bullion correct? So there could be a GREAT demand for 2008 gold proof fractionals?
From what I've read, it appears the there will be GAE fractionals and not buffalos. Correct me if I'm wrong.
There's not supposed to be any more fractional Buffaloes produced ever again of ANY type, bullion or proof, mint-marked or not. 2008 was the ONLY year for those, and in SMALL numbers at that!
It amazes me how people fall for these low mintage numbers just to inflate prices.When it get's down to a completely failed dollar.The whole world will see declines in everything.Including gold and silver.Do you really believe just because a handful was made.That anyone in the world will be caring about mintage of a 10th of an ounce of gold.I think it is hilarious to see all of these idiots believe in low mintage numbers.Coin collecting has always been a gimmick.Anything to make a coin more desirable.Like low mintage or low population of a high grade.Or the biggest joke of all "First Strike".Yet there are millions of people (idiots) out there that still fall for this crapola.It is really all a big game.Everyone assumes that they should buy gold because it will rise when the dollar fails.And then when it rises and the paper dollar is worthless.What will you do.SELL SELL SELL to gain maximum profits.The problem with this theory is.If the dollar becomes worthless.Why would you sell for dollars? And for the reply of the 8:21 blogger."greater diversity has certainly helped to insure domestic tranquility." I would expect a comment like this from someone clearly as ignorant as you.I am positive you will become one of the first people that will go down when all hell breaks lose.
I actually like silver coins...
If the end is near, which I don't believe it for a minute...
I'll probably melt my silver down and make bullets, you get the picture...silver bullets...and a high ho silver away.
Loneranger
You're right about some of your points, guy. But, you don't need to be so hateful when it comes to stating them!
Dude,
You really need some therapy. A vacation at the very least! One can choose to look at the future as bleak, dark and catastrophic. Thankfully, the majority of us tend to believe the future is bright, hopeful and optimistic. So go build yourself a fallout shelter, stock it with canned goods and get yourself alot of guns. The rest of us will go on believing that world will continue to go on like it always has.
It's very simple arithmetic.If you buy something over spot value.And prices fall you lose.If prices rise you break even.The only people that are laughing now are the ones who bought gold back 5 or more years ago.Because they are smart enough to sell now while the profits are high.anyone buying today in my opinion are taking to high a risk with very little gain compared to those who bought back 5 or more years ago.It's a shame in my opinion that collecting has become such a gimmick saturated hobby.It used to be a hobby that was loved to teach our younger ones about history.Now it's all about profit and gain.
You better hope those silver bullets are enough silver to pay for food, Lol.
The people smart enough to buy lead bullets will have a lot more bullets too.LOL
Yes all those early 1799 low mintage gold US coins are only worth melt value, so do you have any to sell me?
I am mainly speaking of the gimmick surge in modern day coins.And yes I do have many of the older gold coins.That I will never sell.Because they belonged to my grandfather.The value of them is warranted.
coin value prices are subjective. Meaning that people pay for the perceived value they are getting. Like it or not, these days many people give value to "early releases" or coins grades 70. So if you have a market that is willing to pay more for these coins then the premium prices they receive is warrented. If you don't give value to the packaging, the "ERs", the higher grades, then don't buy them. But to say they aren't worth it is incorrect. If the market bears it, then it is "worth" it.
That's like saying "As long as there are fools and money I will rip them off with gimmick names and labels".Here is my take on what went wrong.
"Political positions, such as superintendent, chief coiner and assayer, were eliminated in 1995 when the U.S. Mint became a public sector enterprise, meaning it sustains itself on its own profits and doesn’t get a congressional appropriation".
That being quoted.I think the mint and all grading companies have made it next to impossible for any average Joe to buy a coin and see any profit from that coin.I think we need to remove Moy and get back to basics like it was before 1995.
"On the other hand, greater diversity has certainly helped to insure domestic tranquility"...
Can you give an example of where on earth this is true?
I should have put a (ha-ha) at the end. The statement was a failed attempt at irony that would somehow tie the objective of the coin's intended theme ("To Form a More Perfect Union" -- an excerpt of the Preamble to the US Constitution) back to something that is actually in the Preamble, namely (to) insure domestic tranquility. History has shown that diversity of religion and race is probably the leading cause of human death. If one was starting out to build a new nation, actively seeking to have a mix of different religions and races is not a recipe for success.
You can collect coins for the fun of it and you can collect coins for investment. I don't see how anything has changed. Everyone, either collectors or investors, wants to "hit the jackpot" and get a coin that will one day send someone to college. Coin grading services have a good side and a bad side. I feel more comfortable buying a coin on ebay that has been encapsulated and graded by NGC or PCGS. But again, I don't see how anything has really changed. Do it for fun or do it for investment, you can collect pennies, nickels, dimes all the way up to Platium eagles. So stop the whining!
I guess way back when those old gold coins first came out people said not to hold them they were moderns and are were less than the ancients, lol.
That's ok I'm sure many people put a HA HA there for you.
Collector Curtis,
Good for you and your letter. I am just the small collector and have always enjoyed the Silver dollar proofs.
I thought the mint was suppose to cut out all the riff-raff products last year and focus on the mainline items----doesn't seem so by the looks of the turn of discouraging events this year.
BRING BACK THE SILVER PROOFS AND UNC.
(On the platinum coin design..not appealing at all)
You surely do not come from the older days of collecting if you do not see any change.The biggest change was in 1986 when PCGS decided it would start a new type of coin grading system from ms65 to ms70.Since then every gimmick in the book has been used to make a coin more glamorous then it should be.In my opinion there is no such thing as a perfect coin.For anyone to assume that there is actually an ms70 out there is foolish at best.At least when coins were graded ms65.There was a ceiling that would have allowed the thought of a nicer coin out there.I personally have never viewed an ms70 that was perfect.And to assume that and ms70 should be worth 100s of dollars more then an ms69 just because of publication of population is also foolish.I've seen ms69s that blow ms70s away.So that is why I call all of this nonsense a gimmick.
The level of disdain expressed by the traditional coin collectors toward the bullion/proof crowd is difficult to rationalize. What is the issue with letting people engage in a hobby or passion that makes them happy? If it is not your thing, move on - nothing to see here.
The collecting or speculation of bullion and/or proof coins produced by the Mint is not the same as traditional stamp and currency coin collecting. The bullion/proof collectors are not intruding on a classic coin collector's ability to check their pockets for some rare error coin or for the hopes of finding a shinny wheat penny. Traditional collectors can still buy Mint sets and the bullion collectors are not affecting your hobby in any way, shape, or form. The bullion collector is interested in intrinsic value and then for some, there is the "art speculation" aspect that can pertain to appearance and rarity. Sure, it just an ounce of gold much like it is just some swirls of paint. Bullion is a perceived store of value, and not necessarily intended as a means to transact commerce. The bullion proof collector is much the same as the bullion collector, except it extends the bullion speculation aspect with the added prospect of art speculation. We all know the perceived value of art is a fickle business. And most have to admit, the Mint proof coin collecting has a bit of lottery adrenalin thrown in as well. Place an order for a $1300 UHR, and the Mint sends you a $2,500 MS70 Proof Like.
The CFA and the CCAC should be ashamed of themselves. The platinum eagle designs they recommended are both boring and ugly. There were two allegorical liberty designs proposed that are beautiful. Why they didn't recommend either of those is beyond me.
Hopefully, Moy will come to his senses and choose one of the liberty designs. Personally, I like the one with the women seated on the left and right.
Moy, do the right thing.
$2,500 MS70 Proof Like. That in it's self is the problem.Just because a company glorifies it with a label.It all of a sudden becomes 2500.00.If you want to believe that.Then waste your money on it.I'll put my money in two ounces for that cost and smile.
Bitter, just bitter. If you don't like how the game is played, then move on. We aren't going back to Mayberry days.
Not bitter at all.just smart enough to know that it is a game to you.
I buy coins to collect and for investment purposes. Hopefully, I will make money in the future off of the coins I buy. I make no apology for wanting to make a profit.
Your Mayberry comment shows your level of education.Debate on the other hand shows others how critical it is to be educated.To purely show one side of a coin will only help unknowing people to lose a lot of money to people like you who make no apologies for ripping them off.Just my opinion.And for your information.I am very educated if you haven't noticed yet.
Come on, guys. Don't fight. We're ALL disappointed about one thing or another.
Ever wonder who is buying up all the bullion coins?
Now you are trying to prove you are more educated that the rest of us. Give me a break. I am not out to rip anyone off. Making a profit doesn't mean you are taking advantage of someone else. I would suggest to you that you should only collect coins you can find in pocket change. Life is too short to get this upset.
Sort of funny how some people boast about being so smart and educated while sounding so stupid to others. Why would an “educated” person come to a coin blog and bash just about anything to do with coin collecting. From an investment perspective, well… some people obviously don’t understand the basics of supply and demand. Clearly not “educated” in business or economics.
I was excited to see that they’d be minting the platinum coin but I am very disappointed with the “diversity” theme. I won’t be purchasing one if they’re going to put that on the coin. Yeah… like diversity has really brought us all together. It’s just more of the selling out of America.
I doubt that the proof buffaloes will have as low a mintage as last year. People will be lining up to get them in case it’s a repeat of last year… which will ensure that it isn’t. I’ll still pick some up though. I like to get them each year since they are beautiful coins. And yes, I’m already well stocked on guns and ammo.
From an investers perspective.Well... I understand that buying any coin from you would be a loss.
investor even. sorry for the typo.I didn't want you to think I was stupid.LOL
Anon,
4:46pm. Well said my friend. You understand investing, and supply/demand.
Since 1986 PCGS and the US Mint have been in business largely due to the collecting community carrying their backs in making large profits.Now that the economy has started to fall.Both companies are turning their backs on the very people who made them what they are today.PCGS and NGC mainly by putting out gimmick coin labels and poor quality improper grading by way of catering to bulk graders.The US Mint by catering to These companies and other Authorized dealers associated with these companies.Now that the chips are down.Both companies fail to give the Coin collecting community what they want and deserve.
Then Ebay came along and leveled the playing field.You can now buy a coin cheaper then the US Mint and grading fees combined without paying to join the grading companies little club.All you have to do is wait until the coin is forgotten by the many other new gimmicks that arrive each month.The difference between modern day coinage and coins of old like the 1799 gold coins is.The fact that back in 1799 there were no gimmick companies out there to encapsulate coins and keep them in uncirculated condition.
I'll keep my old coins and just keep playing the waiting game.Because even though people claim the mintage's are low.They will never be as rare as the coins from 1799 when man knew the value of a dollar.
For those of you who are not purchasing the Platinum Proof Eagle because of its diversity theme, so be it. It'll only mean fewer will be produced. It's amazing how some people's racism extends into their coin collecting habits.
off the topic but did anybody look at their uncirculated set yet? it seems like zachary taylor's head is rotated clockwise a little bit. maybe a few degrees clockwise!
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/patc/grapesofwrath/\
Tom Joab for President !!! Ripley
I wish "In God We Trust" was removed or at least have 2 versions one with the motto and one without.
Try not to forget though as the U.S. is losing it's wealth, Asia and India is gaining theirs. History has dictated that things Americana are always popular over seas in Europe and Asia. These modern day rarities, i.e. 2008 W's, whether they're gimmicks or not, are still desirable, thus creating a market. I understand the frustration as there is much manipulation involved, as aforementioned, and how the dynamics of numismatics has evolved into what it is today. But at the end of the day, a gold coin is a gold coin, and I don't know anyone who wouldn't love to have the finest examples offered by any mint... Especially the U.S. Mint.
If the design bodies and the mint don't botch the reverse theme, and with the proof GABs going unlimited, the proof PAEs could become the surprise winner of the season.
If you could only buy one coin, which would it be-- the pr buff or pr plat? I'm going to wait until I see the platinum design to make a decision, since the GABs should easily still be around.
The diversity coin design is discrimination.
You should judge a person on their content of their character and not the color of their skin.
It is diversity of thought which should be emulated through FREEDOM.
The previous Platinum Eagles all look great!
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