Mint News Blog

News, Information, and Commentary on US Mint Products

Tuesday, March 22, 2011

More First Spouse Gold Coins Sold Out


Two of more of the 2010 First Spouse Gold Coins are now listed as sold out on the US Mint's website. The latest coins to sell out are the uncirculated versions of the Abigail Fillmore and Jane Pierce coins. Earlier sell outs included the proof versions of the Buchanan's Liberty and Jane Pierce coins.

The Abigail Fillmore coins originally went on sale March 18, 2010, resulting in just over a year of availability. The Jane Piece coins went on sale June 3, 2010, resulting in about nine and a half months of availability.

When the first of the 2010 issues started to sell out, it came as somewhat of a surprise. After the first year of the series, most issues followed a typical pattern of availability. Since none of the coins ever reached the maximum established mintage of 40,000 coins, they remained available "for approximately one year." In practice, the US Mint would end sales to coincide with the release of the issue one year ahead in the schedule.

For the 2010 releases, the US Mint reduced the maximum mintages to 15,000 per issue across proof and uncirculated versions, with the exception of the Mary Todd Lincoln coins which were set higher at 20,000.

The Mint apparently did not strike the coins to the full maximum mintage, but rather based on demand forecasts. It's becoming obvious that these forecasts have fallen very short of the mark. Currently, only four out of the eight coins issued for 2010 remain available: Proof Abigail Fillmore, Uncirculated Buchanan's Liberty, and the Proof and Uncirculated Mary Todd Lincoln coins.

Despite the early sell outs, none of the 2010 issues will establish a new mintage low for the First Spouse Gold Coin series. The last reported sales figures for each coin are shown below.

Unc Proof Total
2007 Martha Washington 20,000 20,000 40,000
2007 Abigail Adams 20,000 20,000 40,000
2007 Thomas Jefferson’s Liberty 20,000 20,000 40,000
2007 Dolley Madison 12,541 18,355 30,896




2008 Elizabeth Monroe 4,519 7,933 12,452
2008 Louisa Adams 4,223 7,454 11,677
2008 Andrew Jackson’s Liberty 4,754 7,806 12,560
2008 Martin Van Buren’s Liberty 4,334 7,515 11,849




2009 Anna Harrison 3,537 6,250 9,787
2009 Letitia Tyler 3,152 5,163 8,315
2009 Julia Tyler 2,861 4,830 7,691
2009 Sarah Polk 3,501 5,157 8,658
2009 Margaret Taylor 3,430 4,787 8,024




2010 Abigail Fillmore 3,663 5,874 9,537
2010 Jane Pierce 3,491 4,843 8,334
2010 James Buchanan’s Liberty 5,579 7,304 12,883
2010 Mary Todd Lincoln 2,709 5,639 8,348

Labels:

48 Comments:

At March 22, 2011 at 4:38 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you know the maximum established mintage for the 2011 First Spouse coins?

 
At March 22, 2011 at 4:49 PM , Blogger Mint News Blog said...

I haven't received that information yet.

 
At March 22, 2011 at 8:06 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think those are the final sales numbers but the mint has final audited numbers that differ.

 
At March 22, 2011 at 9:21 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Circulating $1 Coin Direct Ship Rolls – Franklin Pierce (Y14) And
Circulating $1 Coin Direct Ship Rolls – James Buchanan (Y15) SOLD OUT

 
At March 23, 2011 at 12:46 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could be the next 3$ Stella series. However, interest is waining because of this ailing economy. Yet, everyone seems to be more interested in bullion only these days. Just buy BU Eagles and BU Buffalos. Such a confusing market if you consider numismatic value. Think bullion only - it is much easier. If oil goes to $200/bbl - it is off to the races for gold and so long America. The ME will probably bring it all down soon over oil. The only things standing after that will be BU Eagles and electric cars that run on wind and solar assist.

 
At March 23, 2011 at 6:38 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Michael,

Do you have any idea why the Eliza Johnson first spouse one-half ounce gold coins have not been scheduled for sale?

 
At March 23, 2011 at 10:33 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Michael: Can you please post about rumors surfacing yesterday and today that the US Mint is either out of silver blanks for SAE's, or will stop producing them altogether? These rumors are starting to show up in articles and either need to be quashed or validated. Thanks.

 
At March 23, 2011 at 12:34 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

A previous post (3/22 8:06 p.m.) mentions the mint's final audited numbers for the first spouses that differ from the final sales numbers given here. Does anybody know where the audited numbers are available?

 
At March 23, 2011 at 2:00 PM , Anonymous VABEACHBUM said...

For 10:33 AM - If the ASE articles you have referenced are on the web, please pass along a link or two, or point us in a direction.

Since the ASE Bullion Coins are mandated by law, the Mint simply cannot cancel them. However, it might be able to say that it cannot meet or satisfy demand - due to manufacturing constraints like equipment, labor, blanks, etc.

With that, the Mint recently confirmed that it has been allocating the distribution of ASE bullion to its AP Network since mid-February; blanks are scarce and the Mint cannot "meet" the current public demand. However, they continue to ship some quantities of bullion coins as they become available.

And, to make this situation even more interesting, the Silver market currently has a huge imbalance between existing Silver Contracts and the Physical Metal available to satisfy them. Thus, the perception of a Metal shortage - actual or implied - and the increased spot prices.

The real impact could be to ASE PR and UNC coins. Even though the Mint's Interim Director has pledged to deliver the 2011 PR AND UNC collector coins (that are not required by law), one of three situations will arise if these allocations continue: 1) both are cancelled, similar to 2009. 2) we get one offering, similar to 2010 - but lower numbers in 2011. 3) we get both - but in very low numbers that will make each worthwhile. Care to take a guess which way this one goes??

 
At March 23, 2011 at 2:08 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This series is doing down hill. With gold hitting highs, these coins are selling for $879 as proofs. Who's buy these ladies? When are they just going to stop this series? Just issue a Roosevelt and STOP PLEASE!!!

 
At March 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

@2:08pm

Yes, the higher gold price will curb both collector and speculator demand, but at the same time, it will make this series exceptionally rare.
Ten years from now, if there is even a slightest increase in collector demand, the key and semi-keys in the series will have great potential.
Of course, if demand continues to drop, you will still end up having a bunch of bullions, which might actually not a bad outcome either.

 
At March 23, 2011 at 2:59 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

One more thing to @2:08pm

When the gold price increases, the total premium the Mint charge remains constant, or deceases in respect to the bullion value.
The mint basically just charges $25/@ more ($50 more for 1 Oz) for $50 rise in POG. They don't charge extra premium for the additional increase in gold price.

 
At March 23, 2011 at 3:53 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Say what you will but I do love the ladies. I have been busting my butt to keep up with both and hopefully can continue. The lower the mintage the more the allure. When we get to more recent spouses interest will go up. And when we get our first women president it will also go up. I'm in until the end if gold doesn't go too much higher.

I do believe this years will be the low mintage leaders out of the entire series.

 
At March 23, 2011 at 5:05 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I kinda wish one of the
presidents had married
Dolly Parton.

 
At March 23, 2011 at 5:19 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yea,that would be neat, but even a very low relief version would still not be technically possible, do to the limited depth of the die, and they'd probably have to reduce the diameter of the coin too significantly to make it work, unless they were to bump it up to a 3/4 ounce plancet.

 
At March 23, 2011 at 10:54 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shop around when buying spouses. I have purchased some of them cheaper on e-Bay than from the Mint, or bought an MS or PF-70 for the same as the Mint price.
There are quite a few issues already that command a strong premium after the Mint stops selling them. And e-Bay is about the only source for them. Not that many dealers carry them. I don't think we are likely to see another series like this in the future with such low mintages. Think of how much the Tyler coins will be worth 10 years from now (unless overtaken by others as the keys).

 
At March 23, 2011 at 11:17 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The mint has the final audited numbers, some are higher and some are lower.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 6:24 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

So where are those final numbers from the Mint?

 
At March 24, 2011 at 9:39 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've picked up some reasonably priced First Spouse coins from mintproducts.com in the past. You might want to check those out.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 10:36 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only source of audited numbers that I am aware of come from Eric Jordan, author of Modern Commemorative coins. His numbers nearly always end up proving accurate since he is on contact with the mint's PR people. In any case the mint only releases the numbers to him sometime after the end of each fiscal year.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 2:00 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 1:43pm
If I am correct, the company you mention is not an authorized AP. How do they able to sell the ATB Puck that cheap? I am skeptical.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 2:06 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe they bought them from APMEX, who mysteriously still shows the coins as being "currently out of stock." We all know that has to be bull hockey! :)

 
At March 24, 2011 at 2:28 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

THE AP's WONT SELL ATB COINS FOR $950 - I SAY SCAM!!

 
At March 24, 2011 at 2:43 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

treasuresfromthehunt.com - this domain is owned by WEB.COM, which is a company that lets you setup "free business websites" ... It does not trace back to an individual.

The physical street address from the website shows some type of shop that says "COINS" on a glass window, next to Mike's Shoe Repair. The window also has the phone number from the website on it.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 3:05 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mint State First Spouse Gold Mintages:
Washington...17,661
Adams........17,142
Jefferson....19,823 Liberty
Madison......12,340
Monroe........4,462
Adams.........3,885
Jackson.......4,609 Liberty
Van Buren.....3,826 Liberty
Harrison......3,645
Letitia.......3,240
Julia.........3,143
Polk..........3,489
Taylor........3,629* Gross sales with the lost last week.
Fillmore..Struck to about 3300
Pierce....Struck to about 3300
Buchanan..Struck to about 6300

I need to go back and check to make certain I dont have any data transfer errors but this is what I have on hand.

Eric Jordan

 
At March 24, 2011 at 4:36 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eric, where did you get these mintages from. You have the Van Buren at 3826 while Michael's had 4334...a difference of 508. I doubt your fiques are accurate.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 4:42 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: Gold and Diamond Exchange is Selling 2010 (American the Beautiful) 5 oz. Brilliant Uncirculated Coins Sets- $950 per set of 5!

I didn't see any of these for sell on this site. If they did have them, there is no way they would sell them for $950...someone mentioned they had 500 sets. If they sold them on ebay for $1300/set and cleared $1150, that would net the $200/set. So let's see... $200/set x 500 = $100,000. I don't think they would pass on that...if they do, then I think the first wave of these has arrived from China.!

 
At March 24, 2011 at 5:31 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was just going to say; how long before the fakes from China arrive.

I looked these guys up on Google maps street view and it is some hole in the wall shop. My local coin shop is like that too and he has some heavy, heavy coins "in the back;" but I highly doubt this fella has 500 of them. Call it street smarts, but I would not send a check for $950.00 to that place. That website does not inspire confidence. Not saying it's a scam. It just doesn't pass my rot check.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 6:29 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gold and Diamond Exchange is Selling 2010 (American the Beautiful) 5 oz. Brilliant Uncirculated Coins Sets- $950 per set of 5!

Go to the Los Angeles Craigslist, under collectibles type in: "America the Beautiful". The listing is still there as I am typing this note.

Personally, the coins did not really impress me. They are way overrated. Bullion is bullion and US Mint Proofs are in a league of their own. I'll just wait intill the ATB proofs hit the market.

Still, $38.00 per coin including shipping is a great deal and as I said previously. I went there myself and spoke with them personally. Where they got the coins is somewhat obivious.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 6:36 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Correction:

Not $ 38.00 per coin, $38.00 per ounce.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 6:55 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

There should be a separate site for 5 ounce silver ATB junkies/flippers to keep perseverating on the availability or lack of availability of them from APs or how much the they are selling for on ebay. It is irritating to keep seeing posts on this topic derailing other posts.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 7:38 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are a lot of First Spouse sell outs without any new coins being offered.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the Mint felt like taking a break for a year or two to give the economy some time to stabilize.

They must have a negative cash flow on these considering the low sales numbers.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 9:10 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the Mint wants to sell more First Spouse coins, they should not price them so high above the gold value. People don't like the feeling of being ripped off.

Sure, the prices paid in 2008 and 2009 look like bargains today, but only because the price of gold just kept rising. If it pulls back very much, the prices paid in 2010 and this year will look horrible.

If the Mint keeps delaying the Eliza Johnson coin until the price goes up again, I might just bail out of the series. We should have been able to buy those coins for $879 and $866, had they gone on sale on March 3rd as originally stated. I don't want to delay the purchase hoping for a pullback in price, since I'll only receive someone else's reject coins. You need to order the first day to ensure you get fresh coins. However, I don't want to have to pay $50 extra for them just because of unnecessary delays.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 9:34 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

A couple of days ago a Mint Rep. told me if a coin is returned to them and the original package has been opened, it is not resold, but, rather, it's destroyed.

 
At March 24, 2011 at 11:18 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got them from the US Mints Report to Congress.

Regards,

Eric

 
At March 25, 2011 at 4:06 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 655

It's a recently issues mint product that is still very much in demand and in the interest of many collectors. Hence the ability of flippers etc to profit.

Not everyone interested in the coin is a flipper. I personally love them and have found some previous posts on here very helpful in acquiring them as well as other products.

I would have an issue if there were frequent posts that were completely off topic ie non mint related like all the political and other stuff that used to get on here. Some of the bullion value posts are probably off topic as well.

 
At March 25, 2011 at 5:11 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
March 24, 2011 9:10 PM
"You need to order the first day to ensure you get fresh coins."

Anonymous said...
March 24, 2011 9:34 PM
"... a Mint Rep. told me if a coin is returned to them and the original package has been opened, it is not resold, but, rather, it's destroyed."

Fact: In 2010, on the first day the 2010 Proof Buffalo $50 gold coins were offered, I ordered three coins. What I received from the Mint was one beautiful 2010 Proof Buffalo and two obviously previously opened and sub-standard 2009 Proof Buffalos.

Opinion: In the absence of any authoritative evidence of the contrary, my assumption is that the Mint, in fact, resells returned coins as new.

 
At March 25, 2011 at 5:46 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

My conversation with Mint Rep. referenced First Spouse Gold only.
Possibly, the policy of destroying returned (open package) FSG only applies here!? Sounds inconsistent but....

 
At March 25, 2011 at 6:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

They inspect the coins and if they think they look Ok they get sent back out. If the "Rep" is one of the people at 1-800-usa-mint then put almost zero stock in what they say on such issues because they do not know.

Eric

 
At March 25, 2011 at 6:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe the mint has a stockpile of returned coins?
Guess they open up the packaging to remove the spotted copper 09 pennies and sort them to the copper melter and the silver quarters go to the silver melter or maybe easier to just send them to someone else!
Planned mintages of 3k for recent unc Spouse coins? Really? Any thoughts Michael?

 
At March 25, 2011 at 6:28 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anon 3/24 @ 9:34 pm,

And if a Mint representative told you wolverines would make good house pets, would you believe them? :)

RIP, John Candy!

 
At March 25, 2011 at 7:47 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe the mint has a stockpile of returned coins?
"Guess they open up the packaging to remove the spotted copper 09 pennies and sort them to the copper melter and the silver quarters go to the silver melter or maybe easier to just send them to someone else!"

Answer: I am not talking about cents and quarters. I am talking about low volume higher dollar issues. I have no idea how they handle proof sets.

Planned mintages of 3k for recent unc Spouse coins? Really? Any thoughts Michael?

Answer: The 2010 dated mint state FS coins other than the Buchanan mintstate (it was struck twice) and the Lincoln had about 3300-3500 coins struck. From that must be remove random walk scrap rates. The initial striking runs were to "anticipated demand". Problem was the numbers looked so bad in the first quarter of 2010 when these estimates were being made that very few coins were struck and now they are out of the 2010 year.

The real sleeper of 2010 is the proof gold Buchanan with the old gold design obverse. It is the key to the liberty short set and was struck to about 6500-6700 coins and from this must be pulled the scrap rate. The average scrap rate for proof gold from 2006-2008 for which I have data runs from 8% to 35% with an average net scrap rate of 12%. You can do the math on that coin.

Eric Jordan

 
At March 25, 2011 at 9:09 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice to see you drop by Eric and lend your knowlege to the posting! Hopdefully Michael will do a blog posting on a review your book, which as far as I know is the ONLY one which deals specifically with moderns with any sort of accuracy or focus.

 
At March 25, 2011 at 10:51 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you one of the PCGS board guys?

 
At March 25, 2011 at 1:57 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like the ATB stuff, it's nice to see people getting excited about something coming from the mint. And, we are not all flippers!

 
At March 27, 2011 at 11:56 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

What do you think would happen if Congress decided the stockpile of Presidential dollars was too high and the cost of producing the few First Spouse coins wasn't cost effective?

Do you think the Mint might be obliged to suspend the two series for some period of time? Could that be what's happening?

 
At March 29, 2011 at 7:52 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guess some large buyer or buyers got cold feet this weekend and dumped some mint state Buchanan gold. The weekly sales report crashed over 400 coins this week. Could be that they found out that the coin was struck to over 6,000 and was not the opportunity that they had hoped for.

At some point the market will wake up to the fact that it was the (among the Liberty issues) Proof Gold Buchanan that will have legs. That and the Unc Van Buren and a hand full of good looking non liberty issues that manage to stay key.

 
At March 29, 2011 at 2:53 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The series is way from being complete and folks that can't keep up are adding plenty of supply. Once the series ends and the few existing coins reach their final resting places...you'll see prices skyrocket!!

Name just one (1) US "legal tender" gold coin with a mintage less than 5,000 that you can buy at spot...just one!

...yet, many folks say they will be able to buy First Spouse coins at spot well after the series ends.

Sour grapes...that's what that is.

 

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