Unc ATB Sales Update and One Per Household Products
Total sales for the 2010-P Hot Springs Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin have now reached approximately 25,000 units. This accounts for more than 90% of the total mintage of 27,000 coins.
Sales of the coins began at the US Mint on April 28, 2011 at 12:00 Noon ET. The heavy orders placed at the start of sales took down the Mint's website for about 45 minutes. By 9:00 PM ET, more than 19,000 orders had been accepted.
If not for the one per household ordering limit, these coins would have no doubt sold out on the opening day of availability. The US Mint has used ordering limits to ensure the broadest possible distribution to the public for products with an anticipated high demand.
There have only been a few other numismatic products released by the US Mint in recent years that have been subject to a limit of only one per household. I thought it would be an interesting exercise to examine these.
The Lincoln Coin & Chronicles Set went on sale October 15, 2009, had a maximum production of 50,000 units, was priced at $55.95 and limited of one per household. This product sold out after 30 hours of availability.
The Braille Education Set went on sale October 8, 2009, was limited to 25,000 units, priced at $44.95, and limited to one per household. The opening sales figures for the set were 2,719 units, which rose to 5,996 by the second week. At this point the ordering limit was removed.
The 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin went on sale January 22, 2009, had no maximum mintage, was initially priced at $1,189 per coin, and limited of one per household. Opening day sales were 28,173 coins. After four days, sales reached 40,727. More than six months after the start of sales, the ordering limit was increased to ten coins, later increased further, and eventually removed.
The 2007 10th Anniversary Platinum Eagle Set went on sale December 13, 2007, had a maximum production of 30,000 sets, initial price of $1,949.95, and limit of one per household. After one week, sales had reached 14,682. The US Mint re-evaluated the order limit at the 7-day mark and decided to keep it in place. The limit was eventually removed.
The 2007 Thomas Jefferson's Liberty $10 Gold Coin went on sale August 30, 2007, had a maximum production of 40,000 coins across proof and uncirculated versions, initial pricing of $429.95 (proof) and $410.95 (uncirculated), and limit of one per option per household. A sell out occurred on the first day of sales.
The US Mint also imposed an ordering limit of one per option per household for the next releases of the First Spouse Gold Coin Program featuring Dolley Madison, Elizabeth Monroe, and Louisa Adams. None of these issues achieved a sell out. For each coin the limit was in place for at least the first seven days of sales, but eventually raised and/or removed. After the diminishing sales for the series became apparent, the US Mint imposed an initial ordering limit of ten per option per household starting with the Andrew Jackson's Liberty release. Finally, starting with the 2010 releases, the US Mint stopped imposing an initial ordering limit for newly released First Spouse Gold Coins.
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posted by Mint News Blog @ 1:41 PM
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Jefferson liberty and UHR prove that initial demand is not the most important factor, it is the long term demand.
I'm betting the numismatic versions of the ATB coins will have high demand over time, mainly since they look nice and have low mintages. May not be a home-run like the UHR, but who knows, it may.
Fundamentals on weak dollar make silver and gold strong for a long time.
I'm guessing later ATBs may even sell slower than this first ATB.
Does anyone know when the Mint will be releasing the final mintage numbers for 2010 for the silver eagles?
Most of these have performed poorly. Only the great looking UHR, which is somewhat of a unique coin has appreciated. The Lincoln C&C has held its premium, but nothing upward since after the initial buzz.
My UHR is fantastic.
Like the first gold spouse coins, sales were rapid. After the novelty wears off, sales will fall.
I'm sure all flippers will be so sad... They will have to find other money making opportunities.....
I normally grade all my coins and keep only the 70s. So do I not even bother sending in my ATB for grading, or risk it?
Why waste the money grading it. It's either a 70 or very nice 69+ anyway.
What some are missing is that these are 5 oz. of pure silver which if silver continues to climb, so will the ATB's just by default. The Lincoln Coin & Chronicles, as nice as they are, have to rely on just desire and demand since there is less than 1 oz. of silver in the entire set. The ATB's are a pretty hefty chunk of metal.
This coin should perform okay...not as well as the UHR and not as poorly as most gold spouse coins.
The designs are relatively attractive (more so than many of the gold spouse coins anyway), but it is really kind of a novelty. Ironically, the thing I like least is the size of the puck (it's not a coin no matter what the Mint calls it). I basically see it as a way to purchase multiple ounces of silver in one shot.
The Lincoln sets have performed as well or even better than an equivalent investment in the stock market.
I love the UHR, and always thought it was a winner (regardless of flippers and those seeking short-term gains). It's fun to go back on this blog and see some of the comments people made about this coin. Here is just a sampling of a few:
"As much as I would love to see a UHR coin up close, it's not worth 1500 dollars now and it definately will fall in price once gold goes down in the years ahead."
"A gold coin with a mintage over 100,000 is not going to maintain a big premium. I think people are FINALLY starting to realize this."
"Either way, as pointed out, even with no household limit, VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY $1,389 FOR THIS COIN FROM THE MINT. Sounds like the dealers confidence in this coins value isn't as high as they claim."
"Watch the premiums on eBay disappear for raw/MS69 coins. Glad I bought and sold mine/mothers/sisters back in March..."
"I sold mine last month once I found out the limits were going up. It is a shame that the mint didn't keep the limit to 1."
"My company just purchased 5,000 UHR's!!!"
It's fun to air-chair quarterback from time-to-time...
Checked my order status and found "In stock and reserved" as the status although the order is still "on Hold".
I guess I got "in" when my order went through at 12:45 EST.
I noticed silver has been falling fast since I placed my order. Now they post a 5/16 ship date. It started at 5/12!
Is it time to cut and run, or should I hold fast and still buy the coin?
Also, when the heck will it finally sell out? Are people cancelling as fast as they ordered?
from what i saw all metals were down
I received two set of the bullion ATB 5 oz. one from APMEX and one from Jack Hunt. No comparison. Everyone of the APMEX coins (first shipment) had flaws including fingerprints rim damage and many nicks. Jack Hunt pucks were great not deep mirror but no noticable flaws.
Were the ATB's from APMEX slabbed??
I hope my ATB coins that I'll be receiving from APMEX later this month will be in nice condition - but since I got them for less than melt I guess I shouldn't expect too much.
CG
I hear most UHR owners do not plan on ever selling their coins. This makes it a different scenerio than most.
Joe - That was awesome!! Thanks for the walk down memory lane.
I remember seeing many of those same comments when they hit the blog the first time. Still didn't stop me from picking up 3 raw UHR's; two graded MS70 ER while the other sits in original condition. No plans to part with any of them any time soon.
I bought the ATB-P on opening day. I don't care that they're still available 4 days later. Not concerned about the cancellations from the profit-now generation. Win or lose, I will have one and it will be part of my COLLECTION. I think the ATB-P's have potential, so I'm still planning to add the other examples as this year - and the series - continues.
UHR can definately hold a premium, since rarity is not the only factor. For example the 1909s VDB vs 1914d cents.
Some spouses are climbing, but only time will tell, since the mintages may continue to crawl along.
I am sorry, but it just makes no sense to say the Lincoln Coin & Chronicles set like an equivalent investment in the stock market. First of all, who cares? I have never heard someone say, "I made $50 in the market!" and be happy about it.
Coin collecting should not be confused with investing, or for the most part, speculating. The scale at which most of us buy coins, even if our investment were multiplied by 5, is not enough to live on.
I predict these 5 ouncers are going to long term losers, because NO ONE is going to be interested in completing a set, heck, even a one year set of 5, because of the cost and space it will take up, not to mention the crazy-high cost of silver right now.
I also expect the aftermarket prices of the UHR to dip WAY down if/when gold does. There is a lot of momentum in the certain communities (e.g., those who bought into Y2K) for getting rid of dollars, and putting it into PM right now. I will be interested to see what silver does tomorrow, and if it continues its tumble. However, one year from now, I am VERY confident that silver will be nowhere near $50/oz.
But I could be wrong. (A rare admission on this great blog!)
I think the big ATBs will be unique among "coins" and do quite well, because the "big" "well-known" parks, the military designs, or even the purely artistic gems will all make subset collecting very tempting and doable.
The prices will limit the numbers of us that can collect them all but individual designs will mean a lot to different collectors. There is no way I'm getting rid of my Yellowstones at this time, the same goes for Yosemite and the Grand Canyon. Mt Hood and Hot Springs I don't think will be nearly as desirable.
Gettysburg, Glacier, and Olympic should have big followings for several reasons and higher mintages will make them readily available bringing more collectors into the fold.
I think it'll be interesting and I'm along for the ride.
The UHR is too unique, too historical, and too beautiful a coin to lose much value unless gold plummets.
I sold mine a year ago because I had to and I do regret it because I don't think I can afford another.
"But I could be wrong. (A rare admission on this great blog!)"
The point with my post was not primarily that the Lincoln set is a better investment than the stock market. Nor was it that the UHR was or wasn't a good investment.
My point was your final comment...i.e., we're all wrong from time to time (at least I am). I collect (understanding that I will be wrong from time to time) because I enjoy the hobby and even listening to the speculation chatter here on Michael's blog.
If you're in it for the PM value, then who cares what the coin looks like? If you're in it for the collectible value, then perhaps PM value isn't that important. Ultimately, a person should collect what interests them. However, if you are a hobbyist and incessantly get caught up in the game of timing and prediction, then the hobby will eventually lose its flavor and enjoyment. JMO.
I'm a collector and I look for history, technology (3" = wow!), art ( I love the ATB designs - they remind me of many many treks in the past and to come in the future), satisfaction of earning a unique coin and putting it into my small collection, and rarity.
Yes, I bought a 5 oz'r.
Yes, I am not happy with the price.
Yes, I am goin' to keep it for awhile.
Yes, I am gonna' buy the next one in the series if possible.
Yes, metal prices are goin' up.
Yes, the government keeps creating money and devaluing the dollar.
Yes, if you have a pre 1964 dime you can buy a gallon of gasoline with it.
Yes, I figure in about 47 years I will be able to buy a small home with a 5 oz ATB.
Yes, I didn't say I would buy a small home just that I would be able to with a 5 oz'r.
the only thing crazy about silver prices right now is how cheap it is - but if others are foolish enough to sell I'll continue to buy.
Wow, the Jeff liberties and the UHRs have more than doubled since their issue price!
Any predictions of sell-out timing? Tomorrow, Wednesday, Thursday? I'm sure it will be before one full week of the offering.
To Joe,
I do agree that even if you are purely a collector, the variances in the market are of interest (timing what to buy for your own collection, if not to flip).
It is tempting to regret not buying a UHR at the price of gold then, which I thought was too high. But I quell my disappointment at not having one of these squirreled away in a Safety Deposit Box with the notion that in the next bunch of years, it may be more affordable.
I have stayed away from some aftermarket winners (notably, the Atlanta Olympics) for the same reasons most people did, which is why they are aftermarket winners now. But it doesn't break my heart, because Olympic coins are still overdone, not matter how you slice it.
But I am staying away from First Spouse and the 5 oz. quarters again, like a lot of people are, but it is much easier to do now, even looking at the missed opportunities of the past, because I am still bearish on PMs, and I don't think these series are a good value now. Not only that, I don't have the luxury of being able to buy that much gold and silver to try to complete these sets.
On the upside for both of these series, if PM *do* tank, and it is more affordable to try to complete a series, we will see the development of a numismatic premium due to the tiny mintages, esp. of the Gold Spouses.
But I think buying gold now is like buying it in 1980 -- good if you want to try to make a few bucks flipping, but TERRIBLE for the long term.
And if I am wrong (UNLIKE with the Jackie Robinson set), I won't have to think to myself later, I could have afforded that!
With respect to "gold being like 1980 in a bubble".... Um, I don't think we had 14 trillion dollar deficit in 1980, or even 1 trillion for that matter.
The UHR mintage is a bit deceptive because I think those that liked the coin did not just get one but several and to keep for family, not flip.
Agreed - today's economy is much worse than in 1980 and when interest rates rise this time the US $ and bond market will collapse and PM's and other commodities are going much higher - we haven't seen nothing yet - unfortunately for most people it will be too late when they finally realise this because they will be broke and left with worthless US dollars.
The only value US dollars have is just an illusion because they are only treasury notes issued by a government that is not only broke but the largest debtor nation in the history of the world.
It's unfortunate that most people are so clueless about basic economics - especially the ones that have the most influence in this country.
CG
it's interesting how silver prices sold off 6-8 weeks ago when silver went to $30 then had a quick 10%+ correction then went right back up and now when silver got to almost $50 there is another sell off - I wonder if there will be another huge rally in a few days or so past the $50 resistance level - but whenever it happens it's just a matter of time because it is inevitable.
This we know about silver: at about $50 an ounce, the market crumbles like a tin can.
It happened in the 1970s when the Hunt brothers of Texas cornered the market, and the recent rapid rise to almost $50 an once more marks the price at which the dynamics of the silver market fundamentally changes.
Around $50 an ounce, sellers overtake buyers. Panic overtakes greed. Late acting amateur investors who thought they could buy high and sell higher become bearish octane as they sell to prevent serious losses. This compounds the decline's momentum.
ultra high relief is not special. the price went up is due to bullion gold went up. look at prosperity set and lunar celebration gold coins. they all went up same with UHR. and % gain is almost the same.
Look just think about the 1999 silver proof set and the premium it has being it was first in a series.The same with 2010 5oz. ATB coins.
The UHR is special, very unique, classic design and trmendous eye appeal.
ATB are nice looking too.
1999 silver sets are rip offs!
Over 800,000 made.
Hot Springs 27,000 total.
Less than 2000 left....
Anyone still buying the 5 Oz ATB?
I dun think 27K maybe a low enough mintage for this 5 Oz ATB. It's value may just track that of silver.
why people always cry that silver went down. it is just went down 10 to 15%. based on that. silver price is still very high and good for us.
why people did not cry that all those clad proof set. clad quarter proof set. mint uncirculated set. all these went down heavily. if you sell these sets to a dealer. they will buy your clad proof set as low as $2.75 or less. clad quarter set as low as $2.50. without box and c.o.a. even worst. said as low as $1.75 a set. mint unc set as low as $2.25
The 2010 ATB bullion coins (33K mintage) will track spot silver over time. The 2010 ATB uncirculated coins (27K mintage) will carry a numismatic premium over time.
of this first 5 ATB design; which do you guys think will be the most popular?
I'm thinking Grand Canyan
Yosemite but Hot Springs has a unique/cool background.
Yosemite and Yellowstone looks cool.
Yellowstone to me has the best potential
The question is really quite simple. Ask any five year old what they would rather have if they had their choice, five ASEs or the giant quarter. I’m betting it is the giant quarter.
There is no way these coins are going to increase in value, there is simply not enough interest in them. Those who are buying them for their collection will enjoy them, but dont count on an increase in value. Additionally, I believe that the series will fizel out, like the FS series did. We all remember that the first 3 FS coins sold out quickly, and then interest waned. Well, this series will be the same, with the only exception being that there was little intital inteset from the general public, even at the very beginning of the series. I predict that the current mintages of 27k per 2010 coin will be the highest of this series, 2011 will have increased mintages and thus increased availability but the mint will definately sell many fewer coins. Mark my words...
MT
Funny everyone is so sure of themselves!
Re-read folks dissing the UHR, (too small, too high mintage...)
No one really knows!
I'm all in for the ATB quarters since they actually look awesome.
The state quarters for the most part were blahhh. Please someone admit the Julia Tyler has a nice premium cause the coin looks nice!
The 5oz ATB are like artwork. A sculpted relief of famous parks engraved on pure silver. How cool! Any unique classic commemorative with mintages of 27k did well, especially those with nice designs.
Hot Springs will sell out this week. Buy it cause you like it and you will be happy!
"2011 will have increased mintages and thus increased availability but the mint will definately sell many fewer coins. Mark my words"
ROTFL...the current 2011 ATB bullion coins are 93% sold with a mintage of 125K each only a few thousand left...do you still want to mark your words or eat them
Think he will have to eat his words... Is that guy on the wait list? That could be why he's pissed
ROTFL...the current 2011 ATB bullion coins are 93% sold with a mintage of 125K each only a few thousand left...do you still want to mark your words or eat them
Where are you getting this info?
I do not think there is any truth to this! Do you work for APMEX?
There is no wait list for 2011 ATB bullion
"ROTFL...the current 2011 ATB bullion coins are 93% sold with a mintage of 125K each only a few thousand left...do you still want to mark your words or eat them"
Only a few 2011 clad sets from the mint available too, quick getum while you can!
Oh, there is a cool bridge in NYC you can buy too!!
2011 ATB bullion is worth it's weight in bullion, don't kid yourself (other other readers of this blog)!
Oh by the way I do not buy from APMEX much less work for them
IMHO, I think the 2010 Yellowstone 5 oz. will be the big hit ..Anyone else ?
me too, Yellowstone would be the one for me.
The question is really quite simple. Ask any five year old what they would rather have if they had their choice, five ASEs or the giant quarter. I’m betting it is the giant quarter.
May 3, 2011 6:14 AM
Yep I remember my Grand Dad buying these super big coins at Wool - Worth store for me, they looked like the size of a dinner plate.I had a Mercury dime, Indian head penny and a Washington quarter.
They didn,t fit in my pockets so i lugged them around clinking them together, Driving my mom nuts till she wouldnt let me take them out of my room.
My first coin collection.
The Mint diudn't produced those!
Only the 2007 first spouse coins trade as bullion. All the others sell for a major premium because there are so few of them. I don't know how many people will make it to the end, but those that do will own the rarest modern US coin series.
Silver is going down pretty quickly... How low does it need to fall before buying makes sense? $40/oz? $35/oz?
Silver is falling like a lead brick, look out below!
Now I believe that the "pop" guy was right all along...
The pop pop guy shorted silver at 20/oz... even this drop cannot save him!
Great buying opportunity.
" ROTFL...the current 2011 ATB bullion coins are 93% sold with a mintage of 125K each only a few thousand left...do you still want to mark your words or eat them"
2011 ATB Bullion is 93% sold from the Mint to the AP's. And that's at least 126,500 per issue in 2011.
To date, only two AP's have begun direct sales of 2011 bullion to the public: APMEX and A-Mark Direct, if you already had registered with them for their 2010 program. Other AP's are working their magic with their standard retail customers.
So far, APMEX has sold 3,000 of their 10K+, raw 2-coin sets (as their only sales option so far). A-Mark is marketing graded 2-coin sets at slightly higher prices.
The APMEX offerings already have dropped approximately $35 / set since their quiet release last week. I would expect sales to accelerate if Silver continues the decline and shoppers buy the dip. I'm interested, but will wait a little bit longer. Increased Pops and waning interest will mean lots of availability.
Amark is a ripoff! Roughly $630 for 2 2011 ATBs!? Who are they kiddin'. I got their email twice to buy these coins. Apmex definitely has more fair price for those pieces.
Prudential still has 2010 ATB sets. I mailed them check last week and today they called me to confirm my order.865 is the price shippning is 65 from third party.
Gainsville Coins is selling the 2011 5 oz ATB's for $243.62 each based on spot silver at $41.67.
By far rhe best deal.
Amark is slabbed either Ngc or pcgs
Are A-Marks graded numerically?...probably not. They are probably given the generic Choice or Gem BU grade
Newsflash...
Near-term silver futures in New York plummeted $3.50, or 7.6%, to $42.58 an ounce on Tuesday.
POP! POP! POP! POP!
See I told you so!!!!
The Hot Spring five ounce silver coin is still on sale at the mint. No waiting list yet. Do you think it will sell out before Thursday? It will have been a week.
I guess the series really will be a loser. Demand for even the first of these so called "rare" coins just ain't there.
I wonder if these 5 ouncers will suffer the same fate as the First Spouse coins. Continuous drop in demand and fewer sales.
If they do, it could end up being the same way as the spouses are now: Sales end and premiums go up.
I don't get why enough people haven't stepped up yet to buy all 27,000. I thought sure the sellout would be achieved on day one.
At least there shouldn't be a headache buying the other 4 designs for 2010.
"Prudential still has 2010 ATB sets. I mailed them check last week and today they called me to confirm my order.865 is the price shippning is 65 from third party."
May 3, 2011 2:06 PM
Was this just a confirmation call or where there instructions on who to send money to for shipping? I just ordered a set and any more info would be greatly appreciated.
They called me to confirm my order and told me that will take additional 2 weeks for delivery.
Here is the link
http://www.prudentialbache.com/view/page/prubache/17214
Diamond State Depository will contact you.
Silver is dropping like a lead balloon! What to do? This coin gets more pricey every 24hrs.
Should I cancel my order, or should I ride it out?
I don't want to get something that's going to be worth $100 in a year down the road...
Canceled my order. Silver is tanking.
Plus, there doesn't seem to be any demand for this "coin".
Amazing how fickle some people are on this site. Silver and gold go down in price a few days ago and it's time to jump ship? Nothing dramatic has changed in this economy to warrant any long term correction. Please cancel your orders, I will gladly buy them up!
Just canceled my order too, I am not buying a coin that was priced when silver was 20% higher. This coin will not sell out - no way. I will buy one again when the mint drops the price more in line with the current price of silver.
I'm cancelling my order too. Oh to hell with it I'll cancel my sisters, brothers, mothers, dog bo, cat whiskers, and my pet canary's orders also. LOL.
"I will buy one again when the mint drops the price more in line with the current price of silver."
I don't think the Mint will lower the price (gold maybe, but not silver).
The Mint must have now found itself in an awkward situation on how to reprice the silver proof sets!
just cancel three order of the 2010p ATB 5 oz silver coins.
My, my, my, what ever shall we do? The sky is falling, the silver is falling, Chicken Littles.
No guts no glory
Buy silver on this dip. Fundamentals are still in place for silver to close in on $60/ounce before end of 2011.
I love the fact that it has not sold out yet and the non-collectors/flippers are losing interest and canceling their orders. This means more widespread distribution among the true collector base who will hold onto them long term and increase potential as a sleeper.
This blog is becoming a joke. Some people here don't have anything better to do or anything to do with coin collecting. They just joke around to get attention. This is more reason why Michael should reset the site to allow only using their email ID.
As for ATB, if they are not sold out in a week I think the Mint should remove the limit to allow the dealers to step in to clean up the inventory make room for other 2010 ATBs.
remember the Mint still have 9 more coins to sell by year end.
Real collectors have really good posts and comments, speculators are only on here speculating, being concerned with their wallets that contribute nothing to what Micheal's blog is truly about. The blog is overrun by the latter. I am going somewhere else to enjoy the hobby, and like so many others before me, I am sure the flippers will be quite happy to have it to themselves. Sorry Micheal so many have no respect for you and what you have wanted to provide people with.
Ship date is now May 17!
Real collectors? whats your definiation of that?i am not trying to put you down but i am not gona spend my hard earn money on something wich is not worth a dime, people have different views, some like to collect because the like the coin, some people like to flip, they have the right to make a buck or two,coin hobby is not cheap anymore, when coin costs in hundreds, for me i buy coins that i like and think will do better, so i always buy 3 or 4 of a kind, i keep one for myself, and try to flip the rest and if the profit from them pays for the one i have whats wrong with that.
My point here is that nobody is wrong, you are not wrong, neither are the flippers, its just the way you look at it.
As far as Micheal, he does a wonderful job, he help us get a lot of useful information, which would be hard for us to obtain, plus he puts his time to write the post, which is priceless.
Also who writes what, doesnot bother me, some comments i like and some donot, and thats how it goes.
To May 2, 2011 @8:36PM
Thank you for the website to get mintages for the commemorative coins. I will give it a try.
To: Micheal
Keep this website going. There are many of us who enjoy the hobby and appreciate all your articles and the valuable infomation in them. Speculators will always be part of this hobby. However, I think that most of us who use this site are collectors and enjoy working and helping one another and we commend you for your efforts.
Thank you
Leo S.
Cancelling orders? Don't count on it. Nobody's cancelling anything. They(I) want your coin if you are foolish enough to cancel.
After they are shipped in a week or two(long after the sell out) just check ebay then. Your coin's price will have doubled. And a week or two after that the graded coins come out. Your coin's price will have tripled. Gauranteed.
WOW.
Silver futures fell on Wednesday for a third successive day.... Silver for July delivery in New York slumped as much as 5% to US$40.465 per ounce, after losing 7.6% yesterday and 5.2% on May 2.
What can be said?
POP! POP!! POP!!!!
I told you so....! Affordable ATB sets and silver proof sets!
Pre sales of the ATB silver coin on eBay not doing so well. Prices are falling. Too bad for the flippers.
@ May 3, 2011 7:09 PM - yup, goes to show that many folks here are flippers, not collectors. Greed and $$ rule their world. These are the same ones who keep telling everyone that gold and silver values will rise indefinitely. With their silver hoards, what will they do now?
---------------
I love the fact that it has not sold out yet and the non-collectors/flippers are losing interest and canceling their orders. This means more widespread distribution among the true collector base who will hold onto them long term and increase potential as a sleeper.
The Hot Springs silver coin is still for sale. What gives? Based on comments here, I thought it was going to sell out in one, maybe two days. It's almost been a week.
Did I make a good buy? Will the price decrease in value? The bullion value right now is about $225. The Mint is selling it for $280. What a markup!
I'm actually hope that there is no sell out, and on Thursday (1 week from the original issue date) the Mint will release the "1 per household llimit" so I and others can purchase additional coins, that will bring a sell out! Let's see what the Mint will do.
Per the Mint's own statement.
"Ordering Limits:
A limit of one (1) coin per household is in effect for the first week of this product’s release. At the end of this period, the United States Mint will re-evaluate this limit and either extend, adjust or remove it."
Sorry to burst your bubble Vanessa, but if there's no sellout by Thursday, that will mean only a few thousand ATB's remain and the Mint will not lift the one per household limit with so few left and only one week into sales.
The Mint may lower the 5 Oz ATB price this thurs and MANY will cancel their purchase last week and make a repurchase.
WIll this cause a sellout? Probably not.
"The Mint may lower the 5 Oz ATB price this thurs and MANY will cancel their purchase last week and make a repurchase."
Why is this same comment in two posts? Here's the answer again.
No the Mint cannot lower the price of this coin on Thursday. The price would need to be lowered via publication in the Federal Register, which would take several weeks.
Anyways, pricing was established when the market price of silver was around $40 per ounce.
Wednesday morning at 9:30 and still not sell out, what in the world is going on here, maybe there was a misprint on the US Mint site; maybe the true mintage really should have been 270,000 and not 27,000, well it feels that way... Nevertheless, I was sure this coin would have sold out within the first day or two, and now we are almost a week in and no sell out. It makes no sense.
Just my 2 cents on the current anguish whether the Hot Springs is selling out or lagging slowly. Too many folks (me at times as well) have fallen into the trench that tags a numismatic item and it's value in relation to the mania of spot metal pricing. I think while it is another means to guide buying or selling activity, it's not the be-all to make a final decision.
There are important concerns to bear in mind about this item.
1. It is a numismatic classified offering and not a raw bullion piece.
2. It is in (polished) uncirculated finish and should be infinitely in better condition than the former raw bullion pieces. Issued straight from the Mint in a protective capsule is a key plus, no banging around to be scratched in tubes. As far as those who only buy slabbed coins, fine, but for my money I leave EVERYTHING raw in it's issued state
and always will. You buy something from me, then you do what works for you, you have a choice.
3. They should grade higher, for those folks who use that as their decision making base. MS69-70 should almost be guaranteed from day one.
4. The mintage is clearly limited and pegged at 27,000 pieces. That suggests a loose form of desirability.
5. Whether folks will continue attempting to collect the entire series going forward or not, it is the first by matter of fact.
6. The inital 1 coin per household almost guarantee's wide distribution, and allows this item as not being cornered by the deep pocket crowd. You want one after all have been sold by the Mint, you need to pay up.
It's only my opinion based on almost 50 years of collecting, accumulating and investing in U.S. coins, but I think this offering is well worth the cash outlay. It is a prime example of my money being spent where it's treated best. Good luck.
Market Watch update:
Silver futures drop 4%; gold also falls
Silver futures fell sharply Wednesday, as CME Group Inc.’s latest hike to silver margin requirements took effect and a newspaper reported that high-profile investors George Soros and John Burbank were selling the metals.
KABOOOOM!
Don't worry too much about silver pulling back. JP Morgan Chase has a massive loss on paper as they shorted silver and have been exerting enormous pressure to drive it down in order to cover. They continually make poor judgments in my opinion and it hurts their bottom line profits. Mortgages, under writtings, ATM fees, oil speculation, and now shorting silver. They ought to stay with straight banking, and be successful in the long run. JMO.
Well said, Grandpa. Your "two cents" is invaluable to anyone who might consider becoming a COLLECTOR in the long-term, and certainly rings true with everything that I had considered when this Numismatic Product was coming to market.
What most people don't understand is that the Mint had struck these coins in late Summer or Fall of 2010 - on blanks they had purchased when Silver was spotting at $20 - $23 per FTO.
While everyone thinks that the Mint price is high for this numismatic issue, it falls in line, percentage-wise, with the mark-ups attached to the previous 1 oz., ASE PR releases. The Mint could have taken the current, 2011 market value of Silver and marked-up these 2010 coins from there.
I am hopeful that they will offer the same courtesy with the rest of the 2010 coins. As is, however, the Mint will have to adjust the pricing of the 2011 ATB "P" Coins. If Silver continues to track in the $40's, I am anticipating approximately $325 - $350 per 2011 ATB "P" coin.
Michael - to the best of your knowledge, has the Mint published any production numbers for the 2011 ATB "P" coins??
Spoken like a true colletor grandpa.. I bought my 5 oz coin because of the unique factor. I was a little bent on the price and hopefully silver will drop so I can collect the remaining 5 0z coins not yet released. Based on some of the comments it seems more investors and bankers are influencing (trying to) precious metals to their advantage while the rest of us have to bear the burnden of their greed.
Silver is below $40., there must be a lot of panic buying happening...
TMM
Strike the previous comment, I meant to say panic selling, I wish there was panic buying happening.
TMM
The buying will occur soon enough. @ 35. or lower I will buy.
I hope Gold falls a little more. I really want that Liberty Subset Michael has posted. I missed the boat when the first 3 coins came out.
Shipping date now 5-18
SOLD OUT at last!
how you know they sold out?
Not sold out. The ordering information moved from the main page to the ATB Hot Springs page.
Michael and Grandpa, the next President-Vice President ! Tim
"Michael and Grandpa, the next President-Vice President" !
+ 1 where do I vote ?
Sad to say, GP is off base. 27K for a coin with this high of an issue price is NOT a low mintage. Many silver dollars, with a much lower issue price, have a lower mintage. With the price of silver tumbling FINALLY, you can pick these up for less than issue price in one year, I'm betting. But I still won't want one then -- too big and heavy.
I agree with a previous poster that like th FS golds, this issue with the excitement will be one of the highest mintages, and the whole series will peter out.
You will be glad you passed on this, or regret that you have it once you do. At least, if you are a COIN collector -- while this is technically a coin, it seems a lot more like a giant medal.
Those 5 ounce coins are ugly. I suggest the Canadian series of silver Dinosaur coins for investment with special technology to age the coins.
Naysayers, your running down the 5 oz is not going to work.
To:You will be glad you passed on this, or regret that you have it once you do.
Please don't tell ME how I will feel!!
2:20...could you give some examples of silver dollars with mintages under 27,000
Who is saying that the ATB are like silver dollars? These ATBs were not meant for general circulation, so a comparison with silver dollars is like comparing apples with oranges.
Everyone needs to just cancel their 2010-P HS ATB coin order, the quicker the better.
These coins are nothing buT scrap metal.
It is the worst coin of all times.
CANCEL QUICKLY! DON'T BUY! SILVER IS GOING TO $2/POUND NEXT WEEK! RUN! GET TO THE CHOPPA! THIS IS AHNOLD, GET DOWN!
Ok.. so their not silver dollars. Compare them to other 5 oz coins... Maybe I'm ignorant.. but I don't think there is any other 5 oz coins to compare.. other than the bullion series.
I think I'm going to start collecting pennies again!
I'm going to be pretty ticked off when my coin arrives on 5/22 and silver has dipped to $30 an ounce. I think the mint should issue gift cards or credits based on the ship date vs. spot price for that same day.They could put it right in the box with the coin!
Food for thought....
I forgot to say that silver ain't rare. And $50 per ounce is way overpriced. In fact, $20 is over priced.
Do what you want. But being an old timer and having lived through the Hunt Brothers fiasco, I know a bubble when I see one.
Now what are all those flippers who tried to hoard silver going to do with their stashes?
LOL! POP! LOL!
Is anyone else having trouble signing in and out of the US mint website? I don't know if the problem is the website or my computer.
CG
If you watched the trend for Silver and Gold for the past three years this current trend is a correction. Which needed to happen now and not later. Silver will bottom out and stay around 35.00 and gold will drop until it reaches around 1250. They will be spikes and drops but at the end of 2011 these will be the prices.
@ 3:32 I had no problem signing into the US Mint website at 5:30...
To the POP POP silver individuals and those cancelling Hot Springs' 5ounce orders...While the fast drop in silver may be disconcerting, the fundamentals have not changed. Central banks are still flooding the economy with money. Prices for commodities (wheat, gas, corn, etc.) are on the rise which translates to paying higher prices at the pump and the grocery store. While corporate profits are up, the average individual may not be better of. Unemployment is still around roughly 9%. Silver is still an attractive option to protect wealth. I welcome this drop in silver and plan to buy more if it continues to drop. Furthermore, lower silver prices can lead to higher mintages. Thus, the 27 K mintage of hot springs (and other 2010s) may be the smallest of the series. In addition, collectors purchase coins that they like and generally hold on to those coins. In 10 years, the silver value alone in the hot springs P should be worth more than $279.95.
Very Interesting comment from MFN Holder. I will add my thoughts to the comment:
The Markets have a history of making corrections to a steady predictable price. The ratio of Gold to Silver fell down to 41.2 on Friday’s trading which is the start of the correction between Gold and Silver.
Current momentum in silver is forcing the Gold/Silver Ratio below major support at 46.00. Gold to silver ratio is falling as the silver price rises faster than gold, the ratio of gold prices to silver and next support at the 2006 low of 44.00 followed by 1998 low of 39.00.
This implies a gold price declining to the level of $1320 Oz by the end of year, whereas silver price at $42 oz.
I hoipe evrybody cancels their order. Don't worry mint, I will be there to pick up the Dumba** slack!!
Yellowstone 5 oz available 5/17.
Sell-out of Hot Springs prior to this. 27k mintage for both.
These products will command premiums even if silver falls more.
Get out now, this will be the "shame" coin of the decade, folks.
Now they don't ship till 5/18!
Maybe not many commem S$ under 27K, but Robinson, Leif Ericson, NCS, Police, and 95-96 Olympics are close if not less than that. You could get a nice conventional silver dollar with a low mintage for the issue price here. I am too old to start this kind of expensive new series.
It will be interesting to see what happens, but these will never be for me. So cumbersome! The price really will track spot price for all of these over time, I predict.
With silver below $40, I canceled my order. I will not be the "biggest sucker" or a "bag holder".
Just got an e-mail from APMEX confirming my 2010 ATB 5 oz. set has shipped! I'm happy to have scored a PCGS graded set, especially below spot.
4:34 wow, you would make a great financial advisor...NOT ha ha
Has anyone received their 5oz ATB set from the CNT phone ordering marathon a few weeks ago?
Mine allegedly arrived at the post office in Mass. last week only to apparently disappear as the tracking information was never updated once. The USPS has opened an "investigation" to see if they can find out what happened at the office that supposedly accepted the package. I am not expecting anything except bad news.
CNT arrived on Friday for me.
Dillon Gage has not arrived yet even though I wired money on 4/11.
Anyone get DG ATBs that wired money in that time frame?
I'm excited about the numismatic version of Hot Springs wherever spot happens to be today.
My Hot Springs coins arrived today. I just ordered last Thursdau morning. They sent me the 3 I ordered under my name and 3 other fake names. THey are beautiful!
A guy on Ebay has one in hand with pics to prove it! They HAVE begun shipping. I doubt you got three under one name/address + 3 more. That's almost $1800 in coins, BS.....
I think I will just follow through on my order and have a look at this monster first, then decide....
My order is still on hold, but "reserved" for me...
I really hope it's sold out before they raise the one per limit or I'm pushing off this overpriced anchor....
"Yellowstone 5 oz available 5/17."
Where did you get this date???It's not in the Mint's schedule as of today.
Silver spot down to $39. This is really a poorly executed program.
opening orders on the highest upswing in years.They need a better system with real time pricing like the stock market.
No date for Yellowstone since the fate of the whole series rides on initial response to this first release. Thus far it doesn't bode well for the rest of the sites even reaching fruition. This coin is going to be a real rare bird and a symbol of how bad the economy was in '11. Snap one up and tuck it away.
Yellowstone available 5/17.
Sell out of Hot Springs will be before this.
Confirmed by USMint
Still no sellout after 1 week.
I 've decided to cancel my order before it's too late
My Hot Springs coins arrived today. I just ordered last Thursdau morning. They sent me the 3 I ordered under my name and 3 other fake names. THey are beautiful!
I doubt this happened. Post some pics.
My CNT ATB 5 oz coins came today...very pleased nicest set I have gotten so far..came in airtites and $6 in silver coins was barber halves...some very worn but oh well better than paying sales tax!
"Still no sellout after 1 week.
I 've decided to cancel my order before it's too late"
Who care's?!!
Please go away !!
Too late for what??? You've got a week to inspect the coins from the Mint before sending them back. It's only $5 to ship them back. Geez, some of these posts are just pathetic. People write like they're investing their total life's savings with no alternatives!!
I might cancel and buy a 1-10 ounce gold for 200. Seems like a much safer bet and a nicer piece overall...
Silver currently trading at $35.30. The hot springs P silver value is now worth $176.50. This is a markup over bullion value of roughly 37%. Could this be leading to several cancellations? I expect it is. I, however, am not cancelling my order because I bought the coin for the numismatic value (low mintage). Just curious what everyone else thinks....
Nice ,opened up my email and guess what ? My Mint order for the Hot Springs 5 oz. SHIPPED TODAY.. They are on top of this one I think .Can't wait to see the difference between it and the bullion version.
I do believe that silver will be 50 by next year and well worth the price of the coin for numismatics. This is price manipulation with the CME and uping margins by insane amounts. they can only do this for so long. go long and your fine,
I too bought the Hot Springs ATB unc coin for the numismatic value not the silver content. Yes, it is a bummer to be paying a significant premium over melt but ultimately if the coin is a winner the value of the metal content is ancillary. Case and point the 2009 UHR gold coin, which is selling for over $1000 over its melt value. Granted, the UHR is a beautiful coin which is a major driver for this premium in price, but I would be not be too hasty in cancelling my order for a coin solely based on a drop metal spot price. It is debatable whether or not the unc Hot Springs coin will generate such interest but I am encouraged by the mintage of 27,000 and the uniqueness of the product.
My order has now progressed from "on hold" to "in process" :-)
My coin shows shipped! UPS overnight, too. Looks like it's too late to cancel now,LOL!
I really never cared much for bullion. Proof and collectable coins are so much more beautiful and generally go up in value over time. Bullion on the otherhand generally goes for somewhere around melt value; Blah.
However, that said I am not worried about the bullion ATB coins going down in value because they are both beautiful and rare. A win win; Move over Charlie I am a winner too.
I am so glad that my Dog and Cat each got a set too.
Lets hear it for those that jumped ship. The tranfer of weath is well on its way.
No one should be cancelling their orders because of the price drop. I have not seen many people selling any metals, only buying. The price drop is based on trading paper, physical metal is in demand like never before. Prints are printing fiat money not just in the US but all over the world (US is actualy is one of the places doesn't print as much as others do), make no mistake about it. metals will continue to be valuable and when you also have a rare collectible, just can't loose.
Mine's at home waitng for me!
Just received my 2010 P Hot Springs , I gotta say its a good looking coin , finish looks like silver eagle finish , nice and satiny.
They are shipping from lexington KY UPS overnight. Everyone's getting the free shipping upgrade too.You MUST sign for the box, or no coin!
Finally sold out took forever.
"Finally sold out took forever."
They are still taking orders.I don't see a sell out yet.
Have my coin in hand! It has a fine matte finish almost like it's bead blasted. Coin arrived in perfect condition, BUT the capsule had a nice 1 inch scratch on the front (Wash.) side. Kinda annoying, but not bad enough to toss it back.It's in the box REAL tight and tough to pry out. The coin is real heavy, unlike any other I've hoisted in the past. Definitly a keeper and a real conversation starter!
I love my coin, but it would have been even more impressive as a proof release.
I don't know why my order was canceled.
The Mint email said :
Greetings from the United States Mint.
The following order has been cancelled either at your
request or because we were unable to process it. We invite
you to resubmit the order via our website at
http://www.usmint.gov and click on Product Catalog.
I did not cancel it. It's the Mint screw up.
I went back to the site and reordered. Definitely not sold out.
I wanted these coins in a 1 oz. proof version but as Mick Jagger says "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometimes you just might find you get what you need."
Here is the bottom line. There can only a possible 33k full sets, ever. There will most likley be very few. Indeed you will need the first coin or you are out at first base.
I tell you this: the UHR took a year befire most people found out what they missed. Now they are paying big to get in the game.
If you cancelled your order, you belong on the bench.
Tony: If you shared your order number online, someone could have cancelled it on you. There may also be a problem with your credit card. I would suggest you call them right away and find out what happened.
Got my coin yesterday. It looks like something that the Franklin Mint would produced. It is just a giant quarter.
Won't be ordering anymore.
I wish it had a reeded edge too. It's stamped on the side .999 fine silver 5.0 oz.
It kinda looks like it was spray painted with silver paint. Does'nt really look like real silver metal.Are these actually struck, or are they cast?
Maybe yours is not silver at all.
"Maybe yours is not silver at all."
LMAO
2010 P ATB Hot Springs 5 ounce silver will eventually be a sleeper hit. Why?
1. First 5 ounce silver ATB collector issue (including a unique minting process)
2. Lower mintage than bullion issue
3. Released right before silver corrected causing many to cancel their orders within the first few days
4. Dealers will not have any quantity to sell which will drive up value
5. The collector versions are not mandated by law and could be discontinued after this year
does'nt matter how many cancelled orders, it will all be scooped up by the others. I do wish it would sell out already....
I also wish it was proof, then it would really stand out. The basin on the fountain looks like Homer Simpsons butt!
THe finish is unspectacular, like a spray can job...
The limit will be lifeted on 5/9, then the dealers will swoop in making the coin worthless and there will be a GLUT of these overpriced anchors...
I doubt this series will get past the first 5 coins, it's just too akward a coin to store...
Sorry you could not get one.
I hear lots of Indians and Chinese ordered these so they will be in Asia.
Transfer of American wealth.
Say good-bye to #1.
1. China, 2. India 3.Brazil 4. US
It's been a great ride.
USA is and always will be #1!
Silver is goin up again and the ATB numismatic coin will be a hit once the "sold out" sign goes on display THIS WEEK!
USA is No.1 in economic purchasing power. One of the reasons why we have so much debt. But as far as growth is concerned, there is no comparison with the Asian countries. Those who have been there know what I am talking about. You go back to the same place in a couple of years, you'll have trouble recognizing the place because of so many changes and new buildings. BTW, it's true, they love and are buying American gold coins.
Silver is on its way back up this morning. Even though UBL is gone, people now remembering that economy is still poor. Glad I did not cancel the Hot Springs ATB! Have fun trying to get one of these now. Not shipping until end of May....sounds like wait list to me.
just got mine, i love it. still no sell out though?
The panic over a sellout is comical.. Wheres my popcorn?
i'm not too concerned about sell-out. if they made 300K of them, i would still buy one. first of its kind, very unique - 20 years from now will be worth a lot. of course, 20 years from now a gallon of milk will cost 300K.
i'm not too concerned about sell-out. if they made 300K of them, i would still buy one. first of its kind, very unique - 20 years from now will be worth a lot. of course, 20 years from now a gallon of milk will cost 300K.
Notice there's no release date for the next one? This may be it. This is the worst time to embark on such a lofty program with 9 unemployment.
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=19971
Silver is spiking
Up again. Expect 43 by fri. Close.
@8:34AM; great article, but they are coming out too fast with these! I havn't even even gotten the CC bill for the Hot Springs! Slow it down please, mint..
Finally "Yellowstone" is on sale 05/17. Hopefully the Mint website is not going to be overwhelmed this time. This maybe one of the most popular in the series.
"i'm not too concerned about sell-out. if they made 300K of them, i would still buy one. first of its kind, very unique - 20 years from now will be worth a lot. of course, 20 years from now a gallon of milk will cost 300K."
LMAO about milk
Just got my Hot Springs ATB 5 oz silver "coin" from the mint.
It's a hockey puck.
I think the mintages on this series are going to go way, way down.
My ATB HOT SPRINGS (NP1) 5oz coin delivered today. Why do I feel like I bought very expensive foil-covered chocolate candy?
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