2010 Proof Silver Eagle Update
Update: Latest information on 2010 Proof Silver EagleTestimony recently delivered by US Mint Director Edmund Moy to a Senate Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology includes new developments for the 2010 Proof Silver Eagle. The fate of this coin has remained unknown due to the continued high demand for the bullion version of the coin.
Under current law, the United States Mint is legally obligated to produce American Gold Eagle and American Silver Eagle bullion coins in quantities sufficient to meet the public demand. The recent heightened demand for physical bullion coins has left the US Mint unable to keep up. For nearly two years, the US Mint has been sourcing all precious metals blanks to the production of bullion coins, resulting rather than collector coins. This led to the premature end of production for the 2008 Proof Silver Eagle and the cancellation of the 2009 Proof Silver Eagle.
Director Moy provided testimony on July 20, 2010 during a hearing of the House of Representatives Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology on "The State of U.S. Coins and Currency." In his statement he acknowledged the disappointment of collectors and expressed his encouragement that the Subcommittee was considering an amendment to the law that would allow issuance of collectible versions of the American Silver Eagle even if the full public demand for bullion coins is not met. The US Mint has already provided technical drafting assistance for the change in law. Until this hearing, the possible amendment to the law had been unrevealed.
If such a change is enacted, the Director explained that the US Mint could produce 200,000 coins per month. If production began in September, total production of about 830,000 coins could be accomplished by the end of 2010.
Planned collectible versions of the coin would include the 2010-W Uncirculated Silver Eagle and 2010-W Proof Silver Eagle.
Moy's statement did not include any mention of collectible versions of the 2010 Gold Eagle, but this might suggest that the prospects for these coins is more likely. This year, the US Mint has managed to catch up with gold bullion offerings faster, and even quietly ended their allocation program for the one ounce coins. With the gold bullion coins apparently being minted in quantities sufficient to meet public demand, this should clear the way for production of uncirculated and proof 2010-W Gold Eagles, even without amendment to the law.
Coin Update News: Inefficiencies Cited in US Mint's Bullion Coin Programs
Labels: Silver Eagles
posted by Mint News Blog @ 12:40 PM
27 Comments:
The Mint should use this situation as an opportunity to reduce the Proof Silver Eagle mintage to about 500k or less. That is where the mintage should be to give any value to this precious American Icon of a Coin.
To little to late. I have moved on to world silver proof coins that have far lower mintage and much better designs. My days of believing anything the US Mint says are over. I don't care if they make 2000 proof eagles. I won't buy them. The only way Moy could get me to ever buy them again is to produce the 2009 and 2010 proofs and uncircs. The hole will never be filled and they completely lost my respect for disregarding collectors needs. Why should I show them any more of my money. They should just go back to bed with PCGS and all of them can crash and burn together.
Not that I'm an apologist for Moy, but other series of coins in the past have had skipped years. If it's just one year and the series runs 40-50 years, I'll get over it.
Great news. Thank you Mr. Moy!
Maybe the Mint will produce the 2009-dated coins to include in a special 25th Anniversary set next year. The 3-coin set could contain a Proof 2009, an Uncirculated W 2009, and a Reverse Proof 2011. Limit the sets to 250,000 units again, and they would not take long to sell out. A lot less time than the 2006 20th Anniversary set took to sell out!
Wow, Moy actually trying to do the right thing for once.
Only a government could confuse the terms "sufficient to meet the public demand". All they would have to do is raise price and demand will go down. And then they'll have enough silver and gold to meet public demand.
It would make sense if they were to introduce a Newly designed Eagle, and got rid of the old wagon wheel design, cause I'm sick of seeing it,
or,
Atleast, Put the reverse of the old walking liberty quarter design, on the back of it.
And make sure to make it a Deeper Relief coin Too!
New Design Please, Then we'll all understand the lapse of 09.
Thanks again, in Advance, Mint!
Deeper relief, and a bit more concave. Yeah, true,that alone,
would be pretty cool!
What really amazes me is the fact that our US Mint has such high mintage numbers on virtually all of the coins they produce. They need to do more coin designs with less mintage. If you look at all of the Mints around the world. Our Mint seems to be lacking in their silver designs. I'm glad that they haven't gone to painting enamel on coins like the Aussies seem to be infatuated with. But we need to take the bull by the horns and clean house with the designers and look for future designers that show true art. Why not make more special silver and gold sets again. They always did well with great popularity. The gold was always affordable and silver too. Is there no insight to what has and has not worked for the US Mint. Why did we do away with the 1/4 oz gold designs on commemorative coins. I know there is supposed to be on the medal of honor. But the Mint in my opinion really dropped the ball in 2009 and 2010. How many people here would have paid a high premium for the Lincoln coin and Chronicle with a 1/4 ounce Lincoln gold coin in the set. They could have easily used the profits from that gold to afford the silver needed for the 09 silver Eagle proofs and uncircs. If you ask me my opinion. I think two years straight with failed leadership at the US Mint should call for a cleaning house from top to bottom. After all I have seen with so many disappointed collectors who have moved away from purchasing from the US Mint. I truly believe a major change is needed. The lost profits can not be made up now and for Moy to try to save face now is just to late. Moy should resign and let someone with some back bone and vision run our US Mint. Sorry folks but I just don't buy this latest attempt to save face. With mid terms coming up. There is a good chance to get rid of many of the greedy long term seats. I think it's time to put a new director in for a chance to see our US Mint lead again with the most beautiful coins in the world.
Look for a quick sellout on both the gold and silver eagle proofs unless order limits are put in place or the issue price goes up substantially. Common date proofs are currently selling for moon money - over $50 for proof silver eagles and close to $2000 per ounce for all sizes of proof gold eagles.
Great announcement Michael! Saving some cash for late this year to purchase a proof SAE and get the collection rolling again!
In many comments for about the first half up to now commenters are blaming Mr. Moy. I am not a Moy apologist but on some issues he doing what the law says meaning the problem is mostly with legislation that made the proof ASE a second class coin. Bullion coins were mandatory and proof only if bullion demand less than production capacity.
Thanks for the great work Michael.
It'd be great to see this TPG vitriol go to the TPG oe Ebay forums as most of it is off topic and frankly tiresome. I think most people understand how one or a few of you feel. Lets move on.
Of course they would be laughed out of the store. No smart person would even TRY to sell coins they have a large investment in to a dealer, unless they are completely desperate for cash and will take anything. Dealers have to buy at a discount so they can make a profit on their inventory.
Thanks for the great work Michael.
I've had a standing order for almost 2 years for 5 proofs. Maybe it will get filled, or the Mint will run out of silver and suspend sales .... again.
"Only a government could confuse the terms "sufficient to meet the public demand". All they would have to do is raise price and demand will go down. And then they'll have enough silver and gold to meet public demand."
Sorry, Bowtie, the government can't change the price of bullion. They have to sell as market price.
Last time I checked spot gold was approximately $1,190. The current price of a Buffalo is $1,460.00, that is not market price.
To be fair to all governments. They do have to make a profit on top of the bullion and running expenses. What I don't understand is the increase in prices with less coins. Specially in an already hurting economy.
The government seems to lack the ability to recognize what public demand really is and means and how to encourage it. Although there are many investors that buy bullion. Most of them are simply in the click investors for authorized dealers in the click with all TPGs to maximize profits off of the resale to numismatic collectors and a limited amount of re-investors like self slabbers.
When ever I see demands created by these dealers. I see mass bulk gradings with very controversial grades. I think it is fair to say that a bullion coin should be graded within the same standards as other MS type coins. Most other uncirculated MS type coins carry a grade where ms68 is considered to be a very high standard grade for this type of coin.
To assume that 70% of the in the click bullion ASEs grade out at MS70 only lends me to believe that the TPG in the click bullion buyers have begun to show the disappointments when a 70 grade coin is received.
These coins really look more like a ms68 or ms69 at best. This whole bullion scenario really only has benefited the US Mint and their approved bullion buyers and dealers. The numismatic hobbiest (Public Demand) have really been the ones that benefit the least because they generally pay the most.
Until the US Mint really figures out what public demand means. And the TPGs understand that correct grading is essential. I just don't see anything but a steady decline as the collecting public demand becomes more aware of all of the associated costs that they bare that are tearing away at demand because of total disappointment in over rated high costs.
I personally find it hard to say that many of the proof coins I see fall into this 70 grade so called as perfect as possible grading scale. The argument that no coin can be as perfect as possible is a very valid point with most coins. This will always causes opinion controversies.
The so called MS70 or PR70 has really made many people pay unbelievable profit margins to the authorized TPG dealers. What most people don't realize is this type of coin purchasing is very much like buying a new car. The minute the auction ends or you drive the car off the dealers lot.You more often then not lose money at that point.
This is even more of a reason in my opinion to only buy from all Mints and not fall victim to a huge loss by falling for the over rated over priced TPG coins. If you look at profit margins made off of TPG 70 coins. You would be much smarter to spend that money having it graded yourself after buying from the mint.
But beware with world coins or not being in the click. The TPGs that I see grading world coins are actually in percentage as being lower grades then US coins. And the TPGs charge more for world coin grading which is also wrong and extremely biased. Over all my experience has lead me to believe that TPGs are very discriminating with coin grading. More cost for less grade on world coins.
I have viewed many TPG coins to see these facts. So if you break all these factors down and look at the possibility of the proof, and uncir ASE coming back. You may want to consider buying from the US MInt first. Just my 2 cents worth.
I think the worse thing that the US Mint could do after news like this is NOT make the proofs and uncircs. I believe that would just put another nail in the coffin.
IMHO
Bullion is a generalized term for precious metals that does not, by itself, differentiate between the Mint's investment metals and their numismatic collectibles.
The current price of a American Buffalo Gold PROOF coin is $1460. This Buffalo is not a "bullion" coin, at least not in the Mint Legislation sense of the word.
This Buffalo is a numismatic "Collectable Coin" sold directly to the public by the US Mint. And, while another $250 is added to the spot gold price for the fluff (Proof, Packaging, and Margin), the market rate of the precious metal still drives the price of the Numismatic coin. The prices of the two coins are separated by a constant of $250 and some other variation of +/- $25 that addresses the stepped price adjustments of the numismatic products as compared to the real-time, market price of the respective precious metals.
The US Mint's network of authorized middlemen are buying the legislated bullion coins - eagles, buffs, etc. - from the Mint at a 1 - 1.5% margin, then selling them to the public at their margin above spot. Typically, this mark-up over spot is $5 (Silver) to $75 (Gold) to $150 (Platinum), depending upon the metal, troy weight and market demand.
As an example, the margins have higher on the 1/10 and 1/4 AGE fractional bullion coins, but only because the larger part of public that is buying the fractionals perceives the smaller coins to be more affordable, thus leading to greater demand, faster turn-over, and increased opportunity for profit. As many have said here before - Supply and Demand as the market may bear.
This does not warrant calling a bullion coin a ms70 coin. In no way IMO should any bullion coin be graded this high just to increase profit. And it is a fact that most are graded at ms70 which is a complete scam IMO. And the numbers above are incorrect as far as profits. Not to mention the complete scam created by the TPG price guides of over inflated and graded bullion coins. It is all about the buddy system which scams the hobby collecting public demand. It is a fact that these types of actions are tearing away at public demand as the collecting public demand gets smarter and tired of being ripped off by these tactics. If the market is falsely manipulated like the case of the spouse coin and other coins through advertised hype and rigged auctions. Then the market is not a true honest market to gauge with. The simple facts are that the manipulations created in the coin markets everywhere are over inflating prices and causing many unknowing collectors to lose a lot of money in their investments.
My idea of hell: being a PCGS or NGC grader since the start of the US bullion program in confluence with the advent of registry sets. Think about it - all the rarest, most important coins have already been graded, so all that's for the graders are monster boxes sent in by the TV shillers and warehouse merchants.
Talk about Groundhog Day. Imaging having to grade the same coin, over and over and over ...
I saw a seller on eBay who had 1,000 MS 70 first strike coins for sale. If there's a thousand of them, they're not rare, ok? Get wise people.
Bowtie said:
"Last time I checked spot gold was approximately $1,190. The current price of a Buffalo is $1,460.00, that is not market price."
But we were talking about the bullion coins that the mint is forced by law to issue before proofs can be made.
The mint must make enough bullion gold and silver before they can start making proofs. You said they should raise the price so there would be less demand so they could make proofs. But they can't raise the price of bullion they have to sell unlimited amounts at market price to meet demand, and that is why they had none left for proofs.
The demand for a specific commodity, considered as a mathematical quantity, means how much of that commodity can be sold in a definite market. I believe it is fair to say that the markets have been fully tested in a weak economy on gold. The previous prices on gold were topped out with low demands. Silver however has not yet begun to be tested and therefore will not be determined until such time that the prices are risen enough to test the silver market demand.
To commenter just above. It appears you are assuming that "free" markets are in operation. Nothing could be further from the truth. The gooberment has been dabbling in the stock market for over 20 yrs with the PPT (Plunge Protection Team), a group of federal banking officials injecting money and removing it to make sure the stock market appears somewhat stable. The metal markets are also rigged otherwise people would know the true value of an FRN is less than a clad quarter. People invest in what is called gold or silver EFT's. The problem is in many cases there is 100 ozs of EFT sold for every 1 oz of metal in storage to back up the EFT. As long as most people don't take possession of the metal the Ponzi works, no one knows the difference and metal prices are effectively kept lower than they should be. Most won't take possession because it is easier to trade paper metal stocks than physical metal.
I agree with the ponzi on paper metals. They are an all out lie. However, if you look at prices of gold at around $1500.00 from the US Mint. You see an extreme slow down in sales (demand). This is a great indicator of just how high gold can go before it is no longer in a demand. As far as silver goes. It has yet to be tested above 150.00 an ounce. I believe at that price the demand will still remain affordable. This only means to me that silver will always remain affordable by all classes of people. I look for silver to be the major winner in metals and I am not foolish enough to put any of it on paper. Silver has a very long way to go and is without a doubt the more rare above ground metal. They can only put it on paper but so long before industry and other interests see the realities of the obvious paper lies. I don't think it will be much longer before this happens. The lacking 2009 ASEs was just a small sign of things to come with the truth about silver.
I think you're right about silver. There isn't enough being mined to meet industrial demand. The government, through the big banks can only short it so long before the lack of physical metal causes an upswing. I would guess as soon as the economy turns around we'll see a jump in prices. I'm BUYING now!
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